Marcel, IMO bud, section 18 was written for people cultering fish for the table, mariculture/fish farming, this was written to protect our local enviroment and fish stocks. It has nothing to do with a hobbyist trying to go professional
Section 24 is to control the rock pools being raped and to stop people selling locally caught fish, it is only to protect collection of fish locally, your fish are exotic and imo have nothing to do with what section 24 was intended for.
I think you are in good hands with your Lawyer, you can't ask for a better lawyer, and with a decent understanding Judge and they will now have to rewrite the law more clearly to include our hobby.
Start looking ahead now and breed some albino emporers
Marine Live Resource Act
Sec 18 (1)
Reg 24 (1) (a) (b)
Yes, that is exactly what it was written for and my lawyer says the same. He mentioned that they should write up a policy, which will exclude exotic ornamentals.
Albino clownfish and the Law
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Your layers job is to agree with you
A good lawyer will tell you if/when you are wrong.
I don't think to get off the hook will be a mission, but that the permits are getting issued faster might be a problem. That permit has never been issued before.
And as soon as they issue me that permit, they have to issue Tom and Harrys Dick the same.
I don't think to get off the hook will be a mission, but that the permits are getting issued faster might be a problem. That permit has never been issued before.
And as soon as they issue me that permit, they have to issue Tom and Harrys Dick the same.
I thought that Dallas have obtained these permits already on ly to have them void due to him moving and having to re-apply, if so then they have been issued and you shouldnt have so much of a problem
I actually don't believe this, because the trouble and the costs involved for this permits are not worth to breed just normal ornamentals.
If it wasn't for the albinos, I would have given up my hatchery long time ago.
There is no market in SA to substain a marine ornamental fish hatchery. You can not make a living from breeding marine ornamentals. What do you think, how many clowns in total one could sell per month in the whole of SA?
500? I think thats it. Currently I could produce almost 1o times more with the amount of eggs hatching in my breeding room.
Risk asessment, Environmental management plan, disease management plan, permit for waste water disposal and the application fee will cost 30.000 Rand.
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All imported fish are brought in with cites permits and the required local permits they are then sold on , it does not stipulate that if you buy such a fish you need a permit in your possession.
IF you catch local fish , you need to buy a post office permit to be allowed to keep and collect such fish in an aquarium
1.They do not know what fish species they are dealing with or the law is unclear and needs a judge to clarify it by deciding what the legislature intended in the act
2. People for years bred imported parrots/monkeys like marmosets, squirrel monkeys and no permits were required for these i fail to see why it i would be different for fish unless the law has changed and i dont know it- you cant catch a local parrot or monkey and breed it without a permit same for fish i am sure.
When they realise these fish are not indigenous to our coast the matter will be thrown out and the permits will then be issued for commercial purposes- Many exotic fish are bred locally like freshwater Discus , Koi etc without permits i am sure
Surely they have scientists in MCM that can tell them what fish is what?
Please ask your lawyer to claim for the fish they killed - how much they are worth if they would have been sold as well !
This is pretty funny if it means all us marine aquarium fish keepers are breaking the law under this act- all those huge aquariums they show on Top billing every week in peoples houses would be illegal - I even know a few lawyers with marine aquariums in their offices too, woops they must not know they breaking the law! I bet even some Judges have aquariums too < Welcome to the twilight zone>
IF you catch local fish , you need to buy a post office permit to be allowed to keep and collect such fish in an aquarium
1.They do not know what fish species they are dealing with or the law is unclear and needs a judge to clarify it by deciding what the legislature intended in the act
2. People for years bred imported parrots/monkeys like marmosets, squirrel monkeys and no permits were required for these i fail to see why it i would be different for fish unless the law has changed and i dont know it- you cant catch a local parrot or monkey and breed it without a permit same for fish i am sure.
When they realise these fish are not indigenous to our coast the matter will be thrown out and the permits will then be issued for commercial purposes- Many exotic fish are bred locally like freshwater Discus , Koi etc without permits i am sure
Surely they have scientists in MCM that can tell them what fish is what?
Please ask your lawyer to claim for the fish they killed - how much they are worth if they would have been sold as well !
This is pretty funny if it means all us marine aquarium fish keepers are breaking the law under this act- all those huge aquariums they show on Top billing every week in peoples houses would be illegal
- I even know a few lawyers with marine aquariums in their offices too, woops they must not know they breaking the law! I bet even some Judges have aquariums too < Welcome to the twilight zone>
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Hmm... Well i do know that an environmental and risk study is imperative to the issue of permits.
The Bio diversity act makes provision for the correction of environmental miscalculations. In other words, should something go wrong, the person singing and giving the all clear is held responsible for the rectification. Considering the impact of the signature on the environment report not many are willing to take the risk of a possible miscalculation or under-site, however thorougher they may be.
So for anyone wanting to get a permit. Have big $$$ and get someone to stick their neck out for you. Because if you dunce it they will have to face the law.
thanks to whoever posted the link to the act verry informative I always thaught you could colect for a tank on scuba but it apears not luckely I havent yet and now wont. good thing I freedive to 25m and ave a 4min breath hold
I also thaught you only needed the permit to colect the fish but i reading the act it apears you need to have a current licence just to continue ceeping then in your tank good to know .
while luckyfish's situation is unfortunate at least it has highlited some of the legalities of this hobby to all on here.
I also thaught you only needed the permit to colect the fish but i reading the act it apears you need to have a current licence just to continue ceeping then in your tank good to know .
while luckyfish's situation is unfortunate at least it has highlited some of the legalities of this hobby to all on here.
All imported fish are brought in with cites permits and the required local permits they are then sold on , it does not stipulate that if you buy such a fish you need a permit in your possession.
IF you catch local fish , you need to buy a post office permit to be allowed to keep and collect such fish in an aquarium
1.They do not know what fish species they are dealing with or the law is unclear and needs a judge to clarify it by deciding what the legislature intended in the act
2. People for years bred imported parrots/monkeys like marmosets, squirrel monkeys and no permits were required for these i fail to see why it i would be different for fish unless the law has changed and i dont know it- you cant catch a local parrot or monkey and breed it without a permit same for fish i am sure.
When they realise these fish are not indigenous to our coast the matter will be thrown out and the permits will then be issued for commercial purposes- Many exotic fish are bred locally like freshwater Discus , Koi etc without permits i am sure
Surely they have scientists in MCM that can tell them what fish is what?
Please ask your lawyer to claim for the fish they killed - how much they are worth if they would have been sold as well !
This is pretty funny if it means all us marine aquarium fish keepers are breaking the law under this act- all those huge aquariums they show on Top billing every week in peoples houses would be illegal
That's exactly what I said last year in November -
The Law and fish Collection in SA - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
I've always though this was rather arbitrary. It favours the strong over the weak, rather than setting a proper scientifically determined quota.
thanks to whoever posted the link to the act verry informative I always thaught you could colect for a tank on scuba but it apears not luckely I havent yet and now wont. good thing I freedive to 25m and ave a 4min breath hold
I also thaught you only needed the permit to colect the fish but i reading the act it apears you need to have a current licence just to continue ceeping then in your tank good to know .
while luckyfish's situation is unfortunate at least it has highlited some of the legalities of this hobby to all on here.
SA law says that you can collect on SCUBA. I phoned the relevant government agencies and can confirm this (as long as it is not in a MPA).
Also posted back in Nov of last year, last response on the page...
The Law and fish Collection in SA - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
I have been reading this thread with some interest over the last few weeks. Some very valid comments have been made and then some less valid, somewhat stupid comments have been made.
The Living Marine Resources act from part of Department of Environmental Affairs legislation whereas the Department of Agriculture issues the import permits for fauna and flora. One would assume that the various acts and departments are synchronised but they are not.
A comment was made that if SARS/Customs cleared it for entry it is legal. That is not entirely correct. SARS is there to make sure you pay your import duties and VAT as well as to make sure the invoices match what is in the container/pallet/boxes i.e. you declare your goods as a duty free item but it’s actually a dutiable item. The moment they see its fauna or flora they pass the paperwork on to Department of Agriculture, not Environmental Affairs, for a release stamp.
The Living Marine Resources act from part of Department of Environmental Affairs legislation whereas the Department of Agriculture issues the import permits for fauna and flora. One would assume that the various acts and departments are synchronised but they are not.
A comment was made that if SARS/Customs cleared it for entry it is legal. That is not entirely correct. SARS is there to make sure you pay your import duties and VAT as well as to make sure the invoices match what is in the container/pallet/boxes i.e. you declare your goods as a duty free item but it’s actually a dutiable item. The moment they see its fauna or flora they pass the paperwork on to Department of Agriculture, not Environmental Affairs, for a release stamp.
Yes I agree Henk but when the species listed on the invoice matches the species listed on the permit then the permit is the document which if valid makes the entire shippment legal ?
Only interms of the Department of Agriculture regulations under which the permit was issued.
Ok so what you are getting at is that the Dep of Agri provides all the details and permits and then the Dep or Enviromental affairs has a policing roll but the two dont talk the same language, If I understand you correctly
Well yes and no. As far as I know the Department of Agriculture issues the import permits in terms of the Agricultural Pests act (that’s on the FW permits I have had in the past) and not in terms of the Marine Living Resources act etc.
So technically the import is legal in terms of the laws governing the import but the livestock might be illegal in terms of another piece of legislation. Now from what I understand from the guys at DEA is that the Biodiversity act of 2004 was meant to bring all of this under one umbrella.
thanks to whoever posted the link to the act verry informative I always thaught you could colect for a tank on scuba but it apears not luckely I havent yet and now wont. good thing I freedive to 25m and ave a 4min breath hold
no need to free dive 25m.
Only for marine collection, are you allowed to scuba. For spearfishing and anything else, you are only allowed a snorkel.
in the later act updates, the wording got changed a bit, but still means the same thing.
well you can be technical about it but once cleared at the airport its legal to see and for us to keep...
Well the law and the legal system is technical.
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