Albino clownfish and the Law

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just fed my babies and I cant describe what I felt. I am still swallowing.

They took samples out of each juvi holding tank. Two tanks had albinos and their orange siblings in there, so they took one of each colour. If I had 100 small tanks, they would have taken 100 albino plus x-amount of orange siblings. The law doesnt make sense, the actions taken doesnt make sense. They are all from the same parents, so whats the reason for taking six?
 
marcel i contacted a few people, lets see what happens tomorrow.ps please answer your phone tomorrow, dont drop any calls ok!?
 
mwp said:
Marcel, when I heard that they had taken some of your stock, I immediately became worried that this was "aided theft" of your stock...i.e. it leaves your place and somehow finds its way into another breeder's hands. BE VERY GLAD that they killed the fish they took...that is by far the best way for them to leave your tanks at this point in time.

Of course, why they had to take killed specimens to determine the species ID is beyond me, but I think it's really more the taking of "evidence", not "samples". I'm not even really sure why the species ID matters because nothing remotely similar to Amphiprion ocellaris is a native SA species, and that would seem to be the question they might be trying to answer. Marcel, as they say here in the US...it is way past time to "LAWYER UP"!!! Get yourself some legal help as quickly as possible.

As far as some of the naysayers here, I'd just like to toss in that the article on RB under my name is actually the concoction of 3 different RB contributors all scrambling simultaneously to get the story out as quickly as possible. I'm sorry if some of you did not like the title that was chosen, but honestly that wasn't my title and wasn't my call.

And yes, the article and this entire situation should serve as a wakeup call to all the aquarist in SA. Afterall, basically the entire Marine Aquarium Hobby has possibly been outlawed in India (or as I'm told, it's illegal unless you pay the right people). Don't believe me? I wrote that up as well on RB. While I'm no lawyer, this is indeed a case of FISHING-related laws being applied to something totally different...the laws cited in the paperwork actually lead to the outlawing of the "husbandry and culture of fish in saltwater". Husbandry = care, not breeding. It's a very poor application of the fundamentally wrong laws, but on the flipside, taken at face value, it suggests that you are all guilty of the same thing that Marcel is being charged with. A case like this sets a precedent - it is very important that you remain engaged and involved.

Good luck Marcel, and keep us all in the loop!

Matt
Click to expand...

Matt, no worries bud. The title was actually very good. A bit pushy, but that title caught attention. Thats all that matters.

Breeding and husbandry on a commercial scale is illegal here without having a permit.
The author of the Marine Life Resources Act wrote this law to regulate fishing. He never had marine ornamentals in mind. I could get hold of him, but he wouldn't help to solve this problem.

I am really hurt and extremly disappointed in the system. Maybe I should contact the WWF here in Stellenbosch to put more pressure on upgading this stupid fishermen law. I know that DAFF members are monitoring this thread and I actually don't care. There is a saying in english, "What goes around, comes around."
 
Trev said:
Marcel just a side question, do you still suspect someone doing this intentionaly to get their hands on your albino's and having access to the fish through DAFF ?
Click to expand...

If so, I wouldn't be surprised. Many members think that might be the case. I still believe that someone is black mailing me. This whole action seems to be taken in a rush.
 
LuckyFish said:
I just fed my babies and I cant describe what I felt. I am still swallowing.

They took samples out of each juvi holding tank. Two tanks had albinos and their orange siblings in there, so they took one of each colour. If I had 100 small tanks, they would have taken 100 albino plus x-amount of orange siblings. The law doesnt make sense, the actions taken doesnt make sense. They are all from the same parents, so whats the reason for taking six?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Marcel!
 
I actually thought, I could make this logo more public around the globe.

25074d546dc7161a6.jpg


but I rather skip that one. Pride? Do these people know the meaning?
The world's first marine albino, proudly Amphiprion.
 
LuckyFish said:
I actually thought, I could make this logo more public around the globe.

25074d546dc7161a6.jpg


but I rather skip that one. Pride? Do these people know the meaning?
The world's first marine albino, proudly Amphiprion.
Click to expand...


You may still get to do that some day Marcel! For now there is just a little bump, ok big bump, in the road to your dreams!
 
LuckyFish said:
If so, I wouldn't be surprised. Many members think that might be the case. I still believe that someone is black mailing me. This whole action seems to be taken in a rush.
Click to expand...

Blackmail by definition is something that actually happens. You cant think your being blackmailed- you either are or you arent (i has someone actually threatened you- if not its just speculation and has no bearing on the situation) Blackmail also implies that you are guilty of something- people dont blackmail if you are innocent

definition of blackmail as per wikipedia

"Blackmail is the act of threatening to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand is met. This information is usually of an embarrassing, socially damaging, and/or incriminating nature"

I think the biggest lesson everyone should take from this is that it really doesnt matter how stupid or confusing the law is, you still need to follow procedure and protocol. If you dont understand the procedure, or the departments applicable dont understand procedure, find someone who does (even if its a professional you have to pay). Take the time to do things right the first time.

It really does annoy me when people start calling laws and law officials stupid, irrelevant etc. Laws and offficials (well, the majority) arent there to cause problems- they are there to prevent problems.

I do think that there is a lot more to this case than meets the eye, so marcel, dont see this as an attack on you (it really isnt). All Im trying to say is people need to think before they type- getting overly emotional really does not help the situation at all.
 
Monti said:
I think the biggest lesson everyone should take from this is that it really doesnt matter how stupid or confusing the law is, you still need to follow procedure and protocol. If you dont understand the procedure, or the departments applicable dont understand procedure, find someone who does (even if its a professional you have to pay). Take the time to do things right the first time.
Click to expand...

This does seems to be the missing link here that everyone has been trying to figure out. What is the procedure and protocol? Who would be the professional to go to? I think Marcel has put in a lot of time and effort to do things right.
 
Association Required

I completely Agree Monti

We should instead be gathering funds to start an Association which aims at looking after the interests of marine ornamental aquaculture and the hobby in general.
We should aim to get our niche industry recognized, so that the legislation is reviewed and adapted.

Marine ornamental aquaculture is different to finfish aquaculture especially when it is done on a small scale, in recirculating closed systems.

Most aquaculture uses freshwater mixed with a synthetic salt, so the definition of “mariculture” is actually not applicable in my view.

A fellow member of our community gave me this idea.


He proposed forming an organization.


Drafting a Constitution, Rules and regulations


Creating a members list that adhere to the rules and regulations


Getting a website


This will need cash however. A R250 membership should help.


it's one thing pledging support on a forum policy makers never see......it is another actually doing something about it


What your thoughts?
 
Anemone said:
This does seems to be the missing link here that everyone has been trying to figure out. What is the procedure and protocol? Who would be the professional to go to? I think Marcel has put in a lot of time and effort to do things right.
Click to expand...
The is no confusion, when I applied they gave me all the docs, and a list of people who had the permits and ran aquaculture companies and consultancies, all I did was call and email and they helped with everything, even fixed some flaws in my system. So I agree with monti. Now I wait for mine and I have moved and new place needs zoning and a re-application
Posted via Mobile Device
 
25074d546dc7161a6.jpg


this actually makes me proud - sadly the energy seems like it is being put to bad use but atleast our government is vigilant.
 
dallasg said:
The is no confusion, when I applied they gave me all the docs, and a list of people who had the permits and ran aquaculture companies and consultancies, all I did was call and email and they helped with everything, even fixed some flaws in my system. So I agree with monti. Now I wait for mine and I have moved and new place needs zoning and a re-application
Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...

Then where are Marcel's flaws?
 
dallasg said:
The is no confusion, when I applied they gave me all the docs, and a list of people who had the permits and ran aquaculture companies ile
Click to expand...

Exactly.. and if you go to the department and the person at the desk cant help you- there are always people higher up
 
Anemone said:
Then where are Marcel's flaws?
Click to expand...
i dont know the full story or what was done etc... so this is my "GUESSING" on what happened

i do know that a business contract was signed for supply before the permits were issued, in SA law a commercial contract like that is a business transaction,correct me if i am wrong, and since the permits werent issued and aqua-culture, mariculture in SA require permits it should have been post-poned.
we will all know when more information is given by DAFF.

even if there are grey lines, its up to us to find the correct avenues, and in SA most of our fauna and flora are protected species. ask any abalone diver here how strict they are on collecting them even with a permit.

even Pacific East Aquaculture Coral Farm in USA had to get licenses and permits

http://www.safmc.net/HabitatManagement/CoralFMP/tabid/228/Default.aspx

United States Coral Task Force
 
Last edited:
LuckyFish said:
I actually thought, I could make this logo more public around the globe.

25074d546dc7161a6.jpg


but I rather skip that one. Pride? Do these people know the meaning?
The world's first marine albino, proudly Amphiprion.
Click to expand...


I have no problem reading this thread, I don't mind listening to everyones comments, but for the life of me I can't understand why you would now start to stoop so low as to slag the Proudly South African logo because you have a dispute with the law.. Your company does not even qualify to carry that logo.

Maybe the mods need to keep this thread to facts and not into one big pity party.

:1:
 
Marcel - people in authority also abuse their power - i dont know all the facts but as i said before until you start selling the marine fish locally and internationally , you are in fact a marine hobbyist who is fortunate that his fish are breeding ( no law is broken up to here on these facts). You may have the intention to sell and that needs permits etc but you are trying to do this legally and i am sorry but it does appear like you are being victimised- it will continue unless you get a capable lawyer to put the brakes on, please get one asap, even if you have to go to legal aid.
 
Not meaning to be dumb, but I still want to understand how he is being victimised and blackmailed?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom