I think the whole reefbuilders article was supposed to draw attention to what is happening to Marcel at the moment. I totally agree with it. I think the Law on the subject needs to be clearly marked out. At the moment it is a giant grey area. Can you imagine how much income (tax) the government could lose by not letting this trade happen? But it seems they'd rather spend the money they could have made, trying to prosecute a guy for keeping and breeding non-endemic marine fish? It's crazy if you ask me.
Albino clownfish and the Law
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Seems like a balanced report from reefbuilders.
I called DAFF and got email confirmation as well, that keeping marines is legal, hence the permit to collect and one only needs a permit if breeding or aqua-culturing for commercial value. If u breed fish in ur garage or have frags that's fine. But large scale breeding needs a permit to make sure all things are regulated, eg waste, food disposal, etc. I will post my replies I got on email when on my pc. Yes laws were broken and processes take long, but even then no matter how petty we think atleast the laws are policed etc, I remember mayor guilianni in nyc started with jay-walkers and hawkers and everyone in nyc was up in arms but he cleaned up new york.
I am upset that there was no reasoning from their side knowing marcel was getting permits but rules were broken and finally a dept did what they should. We say why don't they fix crime, drunk driving etc but DAFF monitors marine resources and that's what they did.
Now if it was done to be malicous like mentioned then yes there needs to be some form of justice
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I am upset that there was no reasoning from their side knowing marcel was getting permits but rules were broken and finally a dept did what they should. We say why don't they fix crime, drunk driving etc but DAFF monitors marine resources and that's what they did.
Now if it was done to be malicous like mentioned then yes there needs to be some form of justice
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I hope you come right Marcel.
Out of interest. Have you gotten your SA citizenship? Reason I am asking is that In the Mrine living recourses act as well as in the South African Marine Fish Breeders handbook, it states that you have to be a SA citizen to apply for a [permit. Or do you have a partner in your Business???
There are quite a few grey areas in the legislation, maybe this "incident" will open the eyes of the powers at bay to do a proper legislation wrt permits for Aquaculture, collecting of fish etc.
Cause this act basically puts us all under the same umbrella, and obviously if they implement the laws/rules wrong (which often happens in our Country), it will create a President and we would all loose out.
Couple of links for you to read:
http://www.environment.gov.za//PolLeg/Legislation/MarLivResAct/MarLivResAct.pdf
http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/fisheries/03_areasofwork/social.html
http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/fisheries/21_HotIssues/MAPC/StdMarineAquaculture.pdf
http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/About%20us.htm
http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/Articles/Aqua/Books/Production and Production Systems/marine.pdf
Out of interest. Have you gotten your SA citizenship? Reason I am asking is that In the Mrine living recourses act as well as in the South African Marine Fish Breeders handbook, it states that you have to be a SA citizen to apply for a [permit. Or do you have a partner in your Business???
There are quite a few grey areas in the legislation, maybe this "incident" will open the eyes of the powers at bay to do a proper legislation wrt permits for Aquaculture, collecting of fish etc.
Cause this act basically puts us all under the same umbrella, and obviously if they implement the laws/rules wrong (which often happens in our Country), it will create a President and we would all loose out.
Couple of links for you to read:
http://www.environment.gov.za//PolLeg/Legislation/MarLivResAct/MarLivResAct.pdf
http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/fisheries/03_areasofwork/social.html
http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/fisheries/21_HotIssues/MAPC/StdMarineAquaculture.pdf
http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/About%20us.htm
http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/Articles/Aqua/Books/Production and Production Systems/marine.pdf
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I have just finished reading a compiled list as to how much money (Millions- I think it stated 7.5 Million to be exact) we spend on buying imported fish. And the money made from exporting marine ornamental fish is about 3.5Million per annum.
This is excluding all the money spent on imported goods such as food, hardware etc.
Will see if I can find the article again.
Scary figures we spent I tell ya
Agreed, spend about two hours reading and searching on their website.
Oh comon Rob thats just crazy but if you believe that then please answer the following question as stated in the artical
Breeding albino ocellaris will get you thrown in jail in south africa
Now honestly Rob is this a true statement yes or no, will breeding fish expose you to any legal action from any south african department ?
Johan van Aardt
I love marines [R.I.P.]
Ok i think its time for me to comment.
I feel that everyone arguing about this is ridiculous.
Marcel is going through a tough time and here you guys are arguing about petty feelings.
why not give Marcel your support and keep your thoughts to yourselves.
After all if Marcel were to export his clowns, he would be making money, so that he can further his research which could only help our hobby out.
I feel that everyone arguing about this is ridiculous.
Marcel is going through a tough time and here you guys are arguing about petty feelings.
why not give Marcel your support and keep your thoughts to yourselves.
After all if Marcel were to export his clowns, he would be making money, so that he can further his research which could only help our hobby out.
Just to change the topic a bit, was there any thread in MASA's history with almost 3500 views in not even three days? I think it's a new record.
Right now, I don't know what to think anymore. Just finished reading all comments on reefbuilders and really tired now.
The mainproblem is, that the authorities really don't know what's really written between the lines within the Marine Life Resource Act. And none of them have a clue about breeding marine ornamentals and the whole industry behind it.
Now just imagine how much knowledge about this law the judge will have. The much probably will just use the common sense, which is a good thing.
I did not harm anybody, just trying to make my passion to my profession. I did not sell any fish, not albino nor normal clown. I do not have any local species in my broodstock systems and I was the one who informed the authorities in the first place about what I am doing in my hatchery and what I am attending to do.
Honesty can bring somebody into serious trouble.
Right now, I don't know what to think anymore. Just finished reading all comments on reefbuilders and really tired now.
The mainproblem is, that the authorities really don't know what's really written between the lines within the Marine Life Resource Act. And none of them have a clue about breeding marine ornamentals and the whole industry behind it.
Now just imagine how much knowledge about this law the judge will have. The much probably will just use the common sense, which is a good thing.
I did not harm anybody, just trying to make my passion to my profession. I did not sell any fish, not albino nor normal clown. I do not have any local species in my broodstock systems and I was the one who informed the authorities in the first place about what I am doing in my hatchery and what I am attending to do.
Honesty can bring somebody into serious trouble.
Thinking about your oppinion on how much knowledge a judge will have, very often a judge will have no prior technical knowledge about a case which he needs to review and they do a great job on educating themselfs on the specifics this is their job in order to be able to make a informed decision and the reason they are well paid. I was the aplicant in a case a few years ago and was surprised at how much the judge was interested in understanding evry single technicality involved before moving on it was good to see. And in hindsight this is a good thing as they then have a clear thinking based on the info at hand and cannot be misguided by anothers oppinion. So that will be good for you Marcel
Sadly I dont think that one incident is going to make an entire national department grind to a halt and rethink the act and how it will affect people like you who want to breed marine fish as a livelyhood. But hey lets see how far it goes I see that no one is more motivated than you at this stage just dont loose that in teh next 4 weeks
If you look at the act unfortunately laws have been broken, but now is the time to get this act reviewed especially for small scale hobbyists wanting to breed fish such as clownfish. The same is done for registration of businesses based on earnings why can the same not be done for "commercial operations".
A few issues......the act specifically mentions mariculture which as far as I know is either open-ocean aquaculture or tanks filled with Seawater. Does this then include using an enclosed recirculating system using synthetic salt water?
What is the purpose of the act? Surely to safeguard local species and avoid environmental pollution which is often linked with mariculture. A recirculating system is an enclosed system where the only water replacement is the water lost to evaporation and cleaning,with a lower risk of creating adverse environmental impacts.
Is this not the right time to suggest a change to this legislation and propose something different?
A few issues......the act specifically mentions mariculture which as far as I know is either open-ocean aquaculture or tanks filled with Seawater. Does this then include using an enclosed recirculating system using synthetic salt water?
What is the purpose of the act? Surely to safeguard local species and avoid environmental pollution which is often linked with mariculture. A recirculating system is an enclosed system where the only water replacement is the water lost to evaporation and cleaning,with a lower risk of creating adverse environmental impacts.
Is this not the right time to suggest a change to this legislation and propose something different?
Thank you Dallas for clarifying what was obvious
(rep sent your way),and SURPRISINGLY PEOPLE WERE ASKING THESE KINDA STUPID QUESTIONS HERE,What the.....????!!!Guys lets not clutch at straws keeping marines in SA is 100 percent legal or else the authorities would never approve import permits for retailers who clearly state that unlicensed public will be keeping it since they are not SA species specifically.
Marcel I also truely believe that the judge will use common sense regardless of the laws in this case as the laws are meant to protect our eco systems(and very needed and amongst the best in the world IMO) and he will realize that you are in no way doing anything to harm them.Not like they put idiots as judges here in SA
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Not by me.
They take me to court because of operating a commerical hatchery. They have to prove that I sold fish. Can they? NO, I haven't sold any fish, not even traded in for food or something else in return.
They claim, that my contract with Proaquatix is already commercial.
According to the aquaculture appilcation form, I have to provide them with a business plan. How can I make a business plan without knowing quantities and prices for albino clowns, that can be sold worldwide? Who can tell me roughly what price and what quantity of albino clowns I could sell? Probably only companies like ORA, Seaquest and Proaquatix.
Would they give me the figures without being part of the deal? NO
The DAFF has got my business plan since September last year. So what?
In SA business law your contract is a legal binding document and has nothing to do with your business plan which is just a document stating what you want to do. Its not legal or binding. So under the business law u have signed an agreement to trade and sell comercially. Thought I would clear that part up, that's why they said that
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Hmm... what did they say?
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