Article Vodka Dosing Warning

Whilst browsing through the local forums, I have come across regular references to the vodka method here and there. Just the latest example which has caused me to become very concerned and quite frankly, annoyed : Quote:
Ive done a 75l water change jsut now, what else is there i can do to get rid of these bubbles and to reduce nitrate? (Add vodka???)
(Not from masa, but irrelevant IMO)
The way in which vodka seems to be percieved as fix to nutrient issues, magic cure all or shortcut by newbies is alarming to say the least. If you are new to the hobby, and have heard about vodka,vinegar or sugar being used in tanks, take this post to heart.
There is no quick fix for algae, or nutrient issues. There is no subtitute for patience, hard work, dilligence, sound husbandry techniques and.............. research. And in your research you have come across dosing of vodka, sugar etc.... Thats where the problem lies! The dosing of any carbon source is a very controversial aspect of the hobby to say the least...... Do you really know what it does, how it does it and why it does it??? I am sure most of us can say yes to most of these questions if asked about our skimmers???? And how many to these w.r.t. vodka?

Don't get me wrong, dosing of a carbon source has its place in the hobby, there are some systems with great results which uses it as an integral part of their husbandry (think Prodibio, Zeovit, Fauna Marin). The difference between these systems and the newbies is years of testing, experience, R&D and ...............many dead corals..... There are many reefers using carbon dosing without the abovementioned systems (me included), but once again, patience, research, experience and then some more research is the key.
Furthermore:The scientific literature is out there, but trust me when I tell you, the jury is still out on this one...
Before you even start contemplating using vodka to get rid of nuisance algae/cyano bacteria, first understand what the algae is, why it is there, what you did to allow it to be there..... As you learn, you will learn how to effectively control, reduce and iliminate unwanted species from your tank.....You will learn about the tried, tested and trusted methologies employed by sucessfull reefers. Surely a better place to start........?

Guess what I am trying to say is that if you have algae or nutrient issues, you have husbandry issues! a problem which vodka is NOT going to solve! (I know there is a belief that the deeper you look into the bottle, the easier you forget your problems........and who enjoys hangovers?) Re evaluate your husbandry techniques, stocking levels, feeding regime, flow and filtration method. Do some water changes, blow clean some rock, do whatever it takes....

Like I said, there is a place for systems which employ a carbon source, but only start dabbling in the real dark side once you have a thorough understanding of nutrient fluxes, nutrient and bacterial fluxes, once you have come to grips with parameters, you have managed to maintain relatively low nutrient values, and most importantly, you have achieved STABILITY in you tank. Then and only then, use carbon dosing, trace element and amino acids to tweak colours for example.

 

[IMarine]

Hi bra be carefull with vodca as Ivan has said, there will be a fair amount of algae growth in most tanks out there,the safer thing to do is carry on with your weekly water changes and add purigen but pls also check your phosphates levels by using seachem test kit as it is one of the best test kits to use,you can also use reef biofuel by brightwell aquatics and you must also dose microbacter7 by brightwell as well,what i do is one day microbacter7 and the next stabality by seachem as 2 different strains of bacteria and every day i dose reef biofuel but pls this only what i do so be carefull when dosing any carbon source ,and remember by dosing carbon source you got to have a excellent skimmer to help remove the **** that carbon source and bacteria removes.PLS BE CAREFULL AS YOUR TANK IS SMALL

 

[Seabass]

Shot IMarine

Vodka is mine.

 

[leslie hempel]

hey seabass your system is still very new so it will be going through some chemical and algal settling stages.. id persue with good consistent water changes.. whatch what you feeding and te amounts of which.. goos skimming with a good skimmer (not a cheapie) will be greatly to your advantage.. certain stores down here will simply sell you a skimmer (no matter what kind ) to be able to say they hhave provided you with one but very few (and its cost related) push the better stuff..

in short persevere and keep your routine going if you need help pm me and i will come past im also in gonubie..

 

[Tony]

Here's a link to vodka dosing.
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com

 

[crispin]

Hi bra be carefull with vodca as Ivan has said, there will be a fair amount of algae growth in most tanks out there,the safer thing to do is carry on with your weekly water changes and add purigen but pls also check your phosphates levels by using seachem test kit as it is one of the best test kits to use,you can also use reef biofuel by brightwell aquatics and you must also dose microbacter7 by brightwell as well,what i do is one day microbacter7 and the next stabality by seachem as 2 different strains of bacteria and every day i dose reef biofuel but pls this only what i do so be carefull when dosing any carbon source ,and remember by dosing carbon source you got to have a excellent skimmer to help remove the **** that carbon source and bacteria removes.PLS BE CAREFULL AS YOUR TANK IS SMALL

very well said Imarine

 

[Seabass]

hey seabass your system is still very new so it will be going through some chemical and algal settling stages.. id persue with good consistent water changes.. whatch what you feeding and te amounts of which.. goos skimming with a good skimmer (not a cheapie) will be greatly to your advantage.. certain stores down here will simply sell you a skimmer (no matter what kind ) to be able to say they hhave provided you with one but very few (and its cost related) push the better stuff..

in short persevere and keep your routine going if you need help pm me and I will come past im also in gonubie..

Hi Leslie

I am glad I googled vodka dosing and found this thread. I have one of those skimmers that come with the Boyu 450 tank. The more I read the more I think that the problem comes from the frozen food, I feed this twice a day, 3 diff types as well. Going to cut back on this and see if it helps.

In the process of adding an ATS (42L) (Thanks Mudshark), this will result in the lid of my tank having to be raised to allow for the plumbing, 25mm PVC not sure how to raise it and keep things practical yet. Might then look into another skimmer that hangs on to the tank. What should I look for in this regard?

Shot Tony I also read this tread.

Well the 50ml bottle of vodka still closed.

Thanks all.

 

[riyadhessa]

Tony awesome link thanks...

 

[henry888]

I Am the last person to comment on this... but i found over the last 3 years, is that fighting the algae problem, is the natural way. I've been expirimenting with oysters, double skimmers, algae scrubbers, and ligting. I found that even if you have no Nitrite or any phosphate, butyour lighting and photo period is long enough you will have algae. if your tank is newer than 6 months dont expect miracles, dont add corals, and slowly add phishies.. and so forth. There is no short cut, no matter how you look at it, even if you take another persons sump, the main tank still needs to mature and cycle. remeber the key is lighting water paremeters and filtration. no matter how you look at it, it comes down to research and patience... and perserverence.

 

[henry888]

One last thing I have learnt, please please please research the animals you keep. Many tines the answer is in research. Knowing the animal\coral makes it easier to maintain, and to provide for its needs. Many times we see something beautiful and we want it. With out the correct care for the animal, could be fatal. Research research research . I can’t stress the point more.
What do I mean with natural filtration:
Try using the animals or problems natural enemies to your advantage. Or many times its is correct lighting, filtration or parameters. Chemicals are the short term solution, and not the answer to a natural problem. If you need help with ATS, please send me a pm. I will help where I can.

 

[Ridwaan]

Hi bra be carefull with vodca as Ivan has said, there will be a fair amount of algae growth in most tanks out there,the safer thing to do is carry on with your weekly water changes and add purigen but pls also check your phosphates levels by using seachem test kit as it is one of the best test kits to use,you can also use reef biofuel by brightwell aquatics and you must also dose microbacter7 by brightwell as well,what i do is one day microbacter7 and the next stabality by seachem as 2 different strains of bacteria and every day i dose reef biofuel but pls this only what i do so be carefull when dosing any carbon source ,and remember by dosing carbon source you got to have a excellent skimmer to help remove the **** that carbon source and bacteria removes.PLS BE CAREFULL AS YOUR TANK IS SMALL

I agree 100%
Some people think that one should ONLY dose vodka..The Bacteria is the important part...

 

[Mogamatseraajregal]

Mb7

I have never .ever had a problem with algae(cyano) .have been running a lns (not ulns system) for a couple of years have dsb ,scrubber and overated skimmer .have weekly test results for everything but got ten sps frags.so i wanted to drop po4 from 0.03 to undetectable hence the mb7 in prep for biofuel carbon source.followed dosing instruction and 2 days later bam.defcon level 3 cyano attack.i had to evacuate the 'bacteria' with succesive water changes and extensive'ground'patrols(vaccuming-).my point is affirming the train of thought that the fundamentals of good understanding and husbandry comes first then after a successful honeymoon just maintain the balance.stability is the name of this game.our systems are tending towards the more we temper outside the confines of good husbandry -temp.lighting.flow.salinity.no3.po4.mg.water changes the mord we tend away from stability.i believe all systems work provided the myriad of input variables are satisfied unfortunately mb7 scared me as my variable were wrong like i am sure many others respected reefers were wright

 

[Keanan]

Just though I'd bump this thread, for more people to read.

 

[jacoc]

remeber the key is lighting water paremeters and filtration. no matter how you look at it, it comes down to research and patience... and perserverence.

@henry888...well said..back to basics..

I feed twice a day. Lights on for 8 1/2 hours a day

@Seabass...you seem to be doing every thing by the book and that's good...but you have a small system and a big load you need to control the feeding urges the fish will be fine ..now see if you can bring yourself so far as to feed once a day or two small feedings a day and cut your lights with a half an hour a day...like leslie said watch out the food and quantities you feed..

 

[henry888]

@jacoc

Stay tuned for my paper on Algae... hope it would help, been working for the last week...

 

[Tremayn]

I have heard of a lot of people having problems with MB7. I think its better to use stability. Personally I just use BioDigest. Its like probiotics but replacing the bioptim with vodka

 

[Boegie]

While reading the first page, I see that this thread was started in 2008. Now, its 2011 and ............... well, a lot of people use biopellets, I use vodca. Vodca is cheaper easy to dose and I got a clean tank.
We are all looking for a method, some use algae scrubbers while others use expensive equipment.

Let's continue the thread and hear after 3 years of research by reefers what there opinion is now.

 

[Seabass]

@ jacoc that was two years ago, I have moved on to a bigger 1,2x.6x.6, unless you referring to my new system then I am stumped. But thanks, I have cut back on feeding. Poor fish.

 

[Tremayn]

@ jacoc that was two years ago, I have moved on to a bigger 1,2x.6x.6, unless you referring to my new system then I am stumped. But thanks, I have cut back on feeding. Poor fish.

I was wondering why you sound like a noob

 

[pXius]

While reading the first page, I see that this thread was started in 2008. Now, its 2011 and ............... well, a lot of people use biopellets, I use vodca. Vodca is cheaper easy to dose and I got a clean tank.
We are all looking for a method, some use algae scrubbers while others use expensive equipment.

Let's continue the thread and hear after 3 years of research by reefers what there opinion is now.

I can't comment on other methods besides Bio pellets as I'm still a newb and its the only method I've used. But I can say this:

NOTE: This is all IMO and theory.

As some of you know I had a WS problem and had to turn off my skimmer for 10 days deu to Herbtana dosing. Now normally a system should be able to survive fine without a skimmer for this period, hell, some systems don't even have skimmers, BUT using pellets vs a scrubber or DSB makes your system much more dependent on the skimmer.

As most of you know the concept of the pellets is to feed the bacteria that feeds off Ni-trits/trats and Phos within a reactor. The reactor leads directly into the skimmer so these "nutrient loaded bacteria" can be skimmed out.

Now because my skimmer was off I lost my primary nutrient export system because all the nutrient loaded bacteria now stayed behind in the system causing a nutrient spike and algae bloom.

I personally feel that if it was a DSB based system or if I had a large scrubber the system would have coped better without a skimmer.

Which brings me to my Vodka question: Does dosing vodka make your system more skimmer dependent? In my logic, it should seeing as how closely it resembles a bio pellet system, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[jacoc]

that was two years ago, I have moved on to a bigger 1,2x.6x.6

Yes I see now..hahaha... that small tank has grown in to a beautiful teenager...lol...how is that scrubber going...? don’t sweat it the fish doesn’t know it’s on a health diet...they will be fine..