I don't know of any articles on Reverse flow undergravel filters unless I wrote it as I am the only one I know who uses one.
I will try to explain it on Monday or tuesday.
I will try to explain it on Monday or tuesday.
49 Year Old Tank
- Thread starter SchyffS
- Start date
Hi Paul...This is the way to go...so many times we see or hear of a fish or coral going south then we start trying to fix this and that ..instead of just leaving it and wait it out as all normally sort itself out in a few days or week especially in a matured tank..now by disturbing the hole tank for that one coral or fish we sometimes sacrifice the rest of the tank mates ...Also I agree with you re the lifespan of a fish you mentioned in a other tread..I have 3 fish that’s been with me now over 10 years and am proud of it...haven’t lost a fish other due to my stupidity jet in 10 years...my hat goes off to you...and for the reefers not reading your tread and learning from you... sorry for them...when I read or hear of someone that has been keeping a tank for even 10years or more I read their story to see if I can’t learn something from them...It’s a pity that technology gets followed instead of the basic principals in keeping marines..so many livestock gets lost due to this what I mean is you read of so few guy’s keeping marine for even 7 years and longer and more newbie’s come and go with in the first 5 years as most guy’s insist trying new technology only to pack it up as a lost cause ether to expensive or time consuming and to mush hustles keeping all the gadgets working ...so you keep posting and I will keep learning..Thanks for your valuable input and information.
Thank you Jacoc. I am just a hobbiest like the rest of us here and no expert but I do have some experiences and I think I have had a few of just about every fish available and have encountered at least a couple of cases of every disease.
I was never actually a newby because I started the hobby the same week it became available here in the States. There was no one to learn from. There were no books on saltwater, no salt, no chemicals, no copper, no salt water food, no computers or internet, no test kits, no filters except UG filters, No ROs or DIs, no skimmers. We (or I, as I didn't know anyone with a salt tank and no one had one anyway) all started with a couple of blue devils (the only fish available) and they were seven dollars which is about thirty today. They all had ich and no one knew what ich was except we did have fresh water and they also had paracites so we used malachite green which made the water a beautiful green but didn't do much else.
The "experts" we have today were not into salt or were not born yet. They certainly were not writing books.
I was lucky because I did my first SCUBA dive while I was on R&R from Viet Nam and I got certified when I got out. I also bought a boat so at least I could collect salt water and study fish in the sea. Here in New York it is not tropical so I did not learn much about tropicals until I started to dive in the Caribbean.
I don't like to dive with a lot of people in a resort, you won't learn much like that. I like to go to a tropical location, and hire a guide to show me the good places, this gives me time to lay on the bottom and just observe. Thats how you learn. Now of course we have the internet so we can get a whole lot of mostly incorrect information.
I went through a lot of fish before I learned how to keep the things alive and healthy. The internet is kind of a deterant sometimes and wrong information is so abundant that it is taken for granted that it is true.
Just mention UG filters and fifty people will post and say, the thing can't work.
How many times should I come on and have to tell the entire story?
Hair algae, people still say to add a sea hare to "cure" hair algae. It is not a disease and can't be cured. A sea hair does not even prefer hair algae and even if it eats it, it will grow right back. The stuff disappears on it's own and that is why there are so many rumors of different animals "curing" it. But that is for a different thread where people will argue with me so I probably won't get it started.
Ich is another one. It is the easiest thing to cure and keep your fish from dying but all I hear is garlic. I eat garlic and don't get ich so maybe it works.
This is not rocket science and it is not an expensive hobby (after you set the thing up) Fish want to be healthy and live forever, if they die, it is always our fault.
The fish was healthy when they caught it, it will stay healthy if we learn a few simple cheap things to do to keep them healthy.
Quarantining is great but it is not the answer. It is one way but to me, not the best way.
I will try to start a thread of "my" ideas on this. But it is only "my" opinions from "my" experience. Everyone should eventually through experience tweek this for their own particular situation.
I keep my reading current
I was never actually a newby because I started the hobby the same week it became available here in the States. There was no one to learn from. There were no books on saltwater, no salt, no chemicals, no copper, no salt water food, no computers or internet, no test kits, no filters except UG filters, No ROs or DIs, no skimmers. We (or I, as I didn't know anyone with a salt tank and no one had one anyway) all started with a couple of blue devils (the only fish available) and they were seven dollars which is about thirty today. They all had ich and no one knew what ich was except we did have fresh water and they also had paracites so we used malachite green which made the water a beautiful green but didn't do much else.
The "experts" we have today were not into salt or were not born yet. They certainly were not writing books.
I was lucky because I did my first SCUBA dive while I was on R&R from Viet Nam and I got certified when I got out. I also bought a boat so at least I could collect salt water and study fish in the sea. Here in New York it is not tropical so I did not learn much about tropicals until I started to dive in the Caribbean.
I don't like to dive with a lot of people in a resort, you won't learn much like that. I like to go to a tropical location, and hire a guide to show me the good places, this gives me time to lay on the bottom and just observe. Thats how you learn. Now of course we have the internet so we can get a whole lot of mostly incorrect information.
I went through a lot of fish before I learned how to keep the things alive and healthy. The internet is kind of a deterant sometimes and wrong information is so abundant that it is taken for granted that it is true.
Just mention UG filters and fifty people will post and say, the thing can't work.
How many times should I come on and have to tell the entire story?
Hair algae, people still say to add a sea hare to "cure" hair algae. It is not a disease and can't be cured. A sea hair does not even prefer hair algae and even if it eats it, it will grow right back. The stuff disappears on it's own and that is why there are so many rumors of different animals "curing" it. But that is for a different thread where people will argue with me so I probably won't get it started.
Ich is another one. It is the easiest thing to cure and keep your fish from dying but all I hear is garlic. I eat garlic and don't get ich so maybe it works.
This is not rocket science and it is not an expensive hobby (after you set the thing up) Fish want to be healthy and live forever, if they die, it is always our fault.
The fish was healthy when they caught it, it will stay healthy if we learn a few simple cheap things to do to keep them healthy.
Quarantining is great but it is not the answer. It is one way but to me, not the best way.
I will try to start a thread of "my" ideas on this. But it is only "my" opinions from "my" experience. Everyone should eventually through experience tweek this for their own particular situation.
I keep my reading current
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hi Paul...the last time I tried to assist someone on white spot I said the same re garlic...I use fish liver /oil and soak sinking pallets in it as a standard feeding ritual weekly...I also live 600km from the ocean so no fresh caught food really but one can buy fish oil extracts...and I don’t feed twice a day like the general advice that goes around...the fish in my tank live of the tank and whatever grow or breeds is food...one way or the other...the bit of supplementing food I give weekly is treats and should I go away for a week or two I don’t stress to mush over my tank as it mostly only need me to do top-up's and window cleaning...
When people ask me what I do and I tell them... they almost all say my methods is wrong and I should feed twice or at least once a day to keep the livestock healthy and my system is going to crash and–and-and...and they themselves can’t keep fish healthy or only been doing this for a little while still trying to mature their tanks p!@#$s me of...so giving advice re the habits of feeding and my general lack of maintenance as the market and the so called advance hobbyists even if they only been doing this for a few years require, is not something I talk about any more unless someone asks specifically...I joined to learn re- corals and see if I cant maybe help someone here or there in keeping it simple...not to become popular because I have every gadget the market got to offer...I still do things the old school way the way I started and got used to and it works and does not cost me a lot if any...
I made my share of mistakes and even recently made one that almost cost me dearly because I lend my ears to a lfs and if my system weren’t matured and working the way it does I could have lost a lot...so a lot of good and also bad advice out there...I think for a new guy to learn he should do so threw a experienced one. The question is how does he know which experienced one to listen to ...is it the one that has his own little lfs with every gadget available that runs his tank for him or the one that has the basics and it works...?
Many people like new gadgets and feel it makes the tank easier to maintain. Certainly some of the new inovations do help. I myself use ozone but it is not new. I used it in the 70s.
Many people spend a fortune on additives, that is fine. I don't use any and all add is two part calcium that costs me maybe $5.00 a year. (I don't know what that translates to in your currency)
I change a little water 5 times a year and it seems to be enough. I can buy calcium reactors, and build denitrator coils and add uv lighting but IMO it is not needed. I can also use Zeolite or dose Vodka but again, I don't feel it does anything.
Over the years I have tried all of the "new" creations, some good, some not so much but commerce is what makes the world go around. I myself market an aquarium device but it too is not needed, it is just a tool and I don't push it on anyone.
100% of this hobby is common sense.
How many times do you hear that if you put snails in a tank it will eliminate hair algae? Where does the algae go? In that tiny snail? After it goes in the snail, what happens to it? Does the snail hold on to it until he dies?
Some people change some water every day. It is your money and your time but did you ever see a really good looking tank with all new water? How did your tank look with all new water? Was anything healthy? Did your fish get sick? I wonder why. What could be better than brand new water?
This was posted on another thread on this forum
This is just another example of what information is on the internet. You can say anything on here.
As a matter of fact, everything I have ever sent to a magazine has been published. Why is that?
I have no credentials. No degrees, No Doctorates. Just a fish tank. I am not the smartest guy on here but they publish everything. I could be making this stuff up.
So don't take everything you read as gospel.
Just learn what fish in the sea do, what do they eat? How do they make their living? What do they watch on TV?
You will learn that most fish in the sea eat, fish. Whole fish. Heads, blood, scales, guts, bones and all.
Guess why they do that, besides that they don't know how to fillet or cook fish?
They use the bones for calcium, the blood for iron, the oil in the liver for their immune system and the rest of the stuff for whatever else they need because guess what? Everything that a fish needs to live and stay healthy is in a "fish".
Many people spend a fortune on additives, that is fine. I don't use any and all add is two part calcium that costs me maybe $5.00 a year. (I don't know what that translates to in your currency)
I change a little water 5 times a year and it seems to be enough. I can buy calcium reactors, and build denitrator coils and add uv lighting but IMO it is not needed. I can also use Zeolite or dose Vodka but again, I don't feel it does anything.
Over the years I have tried all of the "new" creations, some good, some not so much but commerce is what makes the world go around. I myself market an aquarium device but it too is not needed, it is just a tool and I don't push it on anyone.
100% of this hobby is common sense.
How many times do you hear that if you put snails in a tank it will eliminate hair algae? Where does the algae go? In that tiny snail? After it goes in the snail, what happens to it? Does the snail hold on to it until he dies?
Some people change some water every day. It is your money and your time but did you ever see a really good looking tank with all new water? How did your tank look with all new water? Was anything healthy? Did your fish get sick? I wonder why. What could be better than brand new water?
This was posted on another thread on this forum
This is just another example of what information is on the internet. You can say anything on here.
As a matter of fact, everything I have ever sent to a magazine has been published. Why is that?
I have no credentials. No degrees, No Doctorates. Just a fish tank. I am not the smartest guy on here but they publish everything. I could be making this stuff up.
So don't take everything you read as gospel.
Just learn what fish in the sea do, what do they eat? How do they make their living? What do they watch on TV?
You will learn that most fish in the sea eat, fish. Whole fish. Heads, blood, scales, guts, bones and all.
Guess why they do that, besides that they don't know how to fillet or cook fish?
They use the bones for calcium, the blood for iron, the oil in the liver for their immune system and the rest of the stuff for whatever else they need because guess what? Everything that a fish needs to live and stay healthy is in a "fish".
just another good reason to go diving
sorry to go a bit off topic, but do you guys do anything to condition your top-up tap water, apart from letting it stand for a few days?
I don't even do that. If I am using ASW, after all the salt is disolved and the temperature is the same, I use it. If I am using NSW. I adjust the temp and adjust the salinity as the sea around here has lower salinity.
I do the same ...when I do waterchanges whitch is maybe 3 a year i first drain the amount to see how much to mix and then i make the mix and get salinity and temp in place..as soon as i can see the botom of the mixing container i ad the water ..it take me maybe 40min max to do a 100l waterchange...never had any problems with that..
thanks Paul - that's good to know.
I've also been running my tanks in very similar fashion for good many years.
the reason I asked was because I had two fish that went blind - nothing else wrong with them, they just couldn't see - I could feed them if I placed the food right in front of them - it was sad though and I always wondered if there could have been something in the tap water that caused this.
the other fish were fine though..
I posted a thread here on some of my ideas of how to keep fish healthy
Fish health through proper nutrition - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
Fish health through proper nutrition - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
hi Jaco,
gebruik jy ook kraanwater om op te top vir evaporation? of gebruik jy RO daarvoor?
Steve i use on tap mixed with kalkwasser..
belindamotion
Google Master
I actually came across an Article where the UGF was mentioned, while I was searching for Information regarding Deep Sea Beds..will admitt, I have not read the whole article..thought you might find it interesting...
Deep Sand Beds
Deep Sand Beds
I read that article and agree with it completely, "But" a UG filter run the way the article suggests is not the way I recommend it to be run and it is a totally different device depending on how it is run.
RO water, being stored is not good. Especially if container is open. Due to all the dissolved minerals and whatever else being removed, it is very easy for the RO water to take up any flavours or chemicals hanging around in the air around it. Test it, put RO water in open container in your fridge for 5 days. Taste it. And you will taste the other open foods in the fridge. So no, do not store RO water for long periods (my opinion - 1 week).
And DO NOT use tap water. The thing is that there are a lot of beneficial minerals in tap water, like magnesium. How much? I do not know and its obvious depending on area. So we remove it with the RO process, just to dose magnesium later on again. So what is the point in that. The real question is, what other chemicals is in the water. Harmless for human consumption, or in low dosage? What happens to them in your CLOSED environment. You as human can pee most of it out of your body. But where does it go in a closed tank. Stays in there for ever. Only way to get it out is to dilute it with water changes. But then again, 10% water changes will only dilute any solution to below 1% after about 44 water changes. But using tap water for your salt mix as well, how in the world will you be able to get rid of the unwanted minerals. So rather use clean RO water, and mix your salt with that. At least you will know then what really goes into the tank.
At the end of the day,
You just have to stand back to be able to see it.
Hi Riaan...did you know you can teach your fish to use the toilet? And some come already trained...lol...
You just have to stand back to be able to see it...
You make a valid point re ro standing for a while..
sorry..couldn’t resist...when is the next meet...?
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Today I had to clean out my algae trough as the water in it was almost overflowing. It grew so much brown hair algae that it was clogged.
As I was doing that I noticed this acropora and I would swear the thing grew an inch in a month.
It is hard to tell and I can't find a picture of it older than a month ago.
This is it 4 weeks ago
And this is it today.
Even some branches that I broke off and left there, fused back to the main structure. I only really added this guy because so many people told me that SPS corals will not live in my dirty tank.
The one to the left of the acropora is the oldest one in there and has also put on more than 25% of it's size. But, what do I know?
As I was doing that I noticed this acropora and I would swear the thing grew an inch in a month.
It is hard to tell and I can't find a picture of it older than a month ago.
This is it 4 weeks ago
And this is it today.
Even some branches that I broke off and left there, fused back to the main structure. I only really added this guy because so many people told me that SPS corals will not live in my dirty tank.
The one to the left of the acropora is the oldest one in there and has also put on more than 25% of it's size. But, what do I know?
Today I think I will go to a new LFS that opened up near here. I have a choice of about 6 LFSs with in a few miles of my house but most of them always get the same old boreing, common things. How many yellow tangs, angelfish and triggers do we need?
I want to get a male mandarin to date my female now that she became an adult and wears eye make up. I also need a male blue stripped pipefish before the female gets too old. She is already on social security and past what their lifespan usually is but I think she is a cougar and a male would do her good. Her last boyfriend died after a lifetime of, well, you know.
I would also like to get a female watchman gobi but they are very hard to tell the sexes, unless you can see her eyelashes. The female died after 10 years of egg laying and the male looks bored.
You rarely see anything new and exciting any more, but I guess if you do this long enough, you have had everything there is a number of times.
I have this grape coral that I got for almost free when a LFS went out of business. It was just about dead with only a sliver of tissue left. Now it is almost completely re grown and is my largest coral. It gets oil soaked pellets every day. I am still experimenting with this gel food and I am still not crazy about it. Clams are still my favorite food next to worms. Clams are also my favorite food and I have them every week. For the tank I buy a live chowder clam for about fifty cents and freeze it. Then I slice off thin pieces to feed the corals and fish. Clams are great because it is one food where you can feed the entire animal. Shrimp, scallop, squid and octopus are not as good because we are only feeding the mussle tissue where the least amount of nutrition is. That is the parts we eat, but we are not fish. Most of us anyway.
I want to get a male mandarin to date my female now that she became an adult and wears eye make up. I also need a male blue stripped pipefish before the female gets too old. She is already on social security and past what their lifespan usually is but I think she is a cougar and a male would do her good. Her last boyfriend died after a lifetime of, well, you know.
I would also like to get a female watchman gobi but they are very hard to tell the sexes, unless you can see her eyelashes. The female died after 10 years of egg laying and the male looks bored.
You rarely see anything new and exciting any more, but I guess if you do this long enough, you have had everything there is a number of times.
I have this grape coral that I got for almost free when a LFS went out of business. It was just about dead with only a sliver of tissue left. Now it is almost completely re grown and is my largest coral. It gets oil soaked pellets every day. I am still experimenting with this gel food and I am still not crazy about it. Clams are still my favorite food next to worms. Clams are also my favorite food and I have them every week. For the tank I buy a live chowder clam for about fifty cents and freeze it. Then I slice off thin pieces to feed the corals and fish. Clams are great because it is one food where you can feed the entire animal. Shrimp, scallop, squid and octopus are not as good because we are only feeding the mussle tissue where the least amount of nutrition is. That is the parts we eat, but we are not fish. Most of us anyway.
I took some pictures. I can't get a full tank shot because the tank is so long and shallow.
I love this algae although most people would not
I love this algae although most people would not
My 5' algae trough just about fell into the tank. It was so full of hair and other algae's that it filled up with water and became too heavy for the flimsy acrylic angles that I had holding one side of it to the side of the top rim. I remove the entire thing to make new (flimsy) angles. I don't have time right now to re design the thing.
I cleaned out the algae and it was very thick and heavy. I also rescued uncountable brittle stars and amphipods but I also lost plenty of them.
It is back together and working like a charm. My skimmer is going crazy now from all the "gook" that came off the trough when I removed it.
I cleaned out the algae and it was very thick and heavy. I also rescued uncountable brittle stars and amphipods but I also lost plenty of them.
It is back together and working like a charm. My skimmer is going crazy now from all the "gook" that came off the trough when I removed it.