Skimmer theory ?

I think that the "best touted" air filtration system, is a combination of sponges and GAC.... Like in a "fresh water" filtration system..... This WILL restrict your air intake, though. So - you better compensate for the air intake with a bigger rated (than planned) pump, if you want to go this route.

Neil - I have read that the Becket 1408 is an "off the shelf" unit found at irrigation shops, made for fountain-heads?
Perhaps go and look for one at these type shops/sections at your local "Builder's"?

Perhaps print out a copy of one of the pictures showing the Beckett design up close (from the URL links that I posted) and take it with you to show the sales people? They MIGHT not know the term "Beckett"....
 
My skimmer intake got a long piece of 19mm flexible tube on it, and it sucks air from outside. Not the air in the sump area. Apparently the dsb, cheato etc let go of a lot of
CO2, and your skimmer then just sucks that directly back into the water.
But I got the pipe there more for noise reduction. So , 2 flies in one go.
 
External skimmers are not so much susceptible to "issues" with "dirty air" (unless you count the "dirty Gauteng air")......

If you are really scared of "issues" with air impurities, you can always build a "air filter box" and have your airlines/beckett air valves, in inside this "air filtration box"....
This box will then contain the filtration media as mentioned above....
 
Hi peeps

Hope you don’t mind if I join in with discussion. I’ve been a skimmer freak for many years now and although Deltec skimmer design is down Wolfgang the skimmer guru at Deltec rather than D-D I find skimmer design extremely interesting so hope I can add my views on the subject.
With regards to air pollutants I personally run my air through carbon as I take air from outside the house due to Ph suppression during the winter months when the house is shut up.

As I live in a rural area near fields there is always a danger of crop spraying or neighbours using weed killers or bug powder so it essential if taking air from outside if you live in a street, near industry or agriculture.

Skimmer design is tricky for sure, historically designs have always been limited by the amount of air that could physically injected into the body. When we look back at lime wood diffusers for instance the skimmer design relied on long thin bodies with thin neck designs.
Although these skimmers were not particularly efficient due to the fact that the amount of air was limited to the air pump used and lime wood diffuser life their saving grace was contact time and steady/gentle foam build.

The next big thing came with the needle wheel pump; a new era came about with the new taller skimmers that could handle more air. Cup and neck sizes increased although the amount of air the pumps could shift was still limited to around 800 lt/hour so neck sizes were still quite small and bodies tall to make the most of contact time. The tall Aquamedic skimmers were a prime example, two large pumps, very tall body and thin conical neck to make the most of the available foam at the head.
Beckett skimmers were quite popular as although quite power hungry they could inject far more air than old school needle wheels.
Deltec did offset the need for very tall skimmers by using more pumps on a wider shorter body to increase the air whilst increasing capacity within the body. The neck sizes were also larger to account for the increase in air. Try this on a skimmer with a narrow neck and it would have continually flooded. We also have to look at air to water ratio’s of the pump, most of the time the pumps were shifting lots of water and not a great deal of air creating chaotic conditions inside the skimmer, something modern designs avoid like the plague and another reason that skimmers couldn’t be made smaller.
Modern skimmers are easier to site due to the more compact size and you’ll notice that the better designs rely on wide bodies, diffuser plates, high air to water ratio at the recirc pump, efficient design of inlet and outlet so dirty water doesn’t keep getting re skimmed, better level adjustments and wide neck designs.

Skimmers now force huge amounts of air through them whilst keeping chaotic behaviour inside the skimmer nominal so bubbles can enter the neck to form good foam without popping too early and protein draining back into the skimmer. Neck size is also key as if the neck is too large the foam causes scum to build and can’t remain stable to force its way into the cup, too narrow and the cup will flood and you may have to reduce air/pump size.
Bubble size is also important, it’s far better to have a pump producing very small bubble size and greater surface area than to use a larger pump that looks to be producing more air due to volume but with larger bubbles.

So basically it’s a balancing act between
1 Amount of air
2 body size
3 bubble size
4 flow through the skimmer
5 neck size

Not that difficult to do with the older taller designs as you can default to lots of contact time but not so simple when trying to optimise more compact skimmers.

Sorry for going over a little history there but I think it helps us understand the latest tech even if its going over old ground.
 
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Maybe a little basic i know as it doesnt go into much in the way of designing a new skimmer but we have to look back to look forward i think. If i were to design a skimmer i would definately look produce oner with a stout body and wide neck. Matching a pump would be the hardest part so i would probably source a pump first, measure the air flow and build a skimmer to a spec that should closely match the pump.

Finding a reliable pump capable of pulling decent amounts of air might be the problem, Sicces are great at pulling air but can be pretty unreliable and stall on start up if they pull too much.

If you have the compnents and materials available too you its worth a bash but the danger is spending hard earned cash and finding that your skimmer just wont skim well.

I know there was vast amounts of R&D work that went into the new TC/SC skimmers as its much harder to create a short skimmer that is highly efficient than a tall one.
 
Thx Tony, I think you've got a great point about buying the pump with the air ratio required and building the skimmer around it but more than one try at building a skimmer and I'm fairly sure the novelty will wear off. As you said, "vast amounts of R&D" not just a bit of light reading.
 
Thank you so much for the valuable input there Tony.

As a point of interest the failure in the beckett design seems to be the need for power hungry pumps, with the advent of pumps like the HY series 40w for 4000Lph odd, do you think there is merit in having a re-look at this sort of skimmer or is this technology outdated?
 
I dont see why not Neil, becketts are not very popular in the U.K due to the power and noise issue so i havent seen that many running to be fair. I do remember the noise and the huge swiming pool pump strapped to one of them lol.

The Americans have the most success with regards to bespoke skimmer builds but then again they do like to build big ole skimmers and whilst they may not be uber efficient they due to the size they will build a foam.

The real art comes in designing compact euro style skimmers that can handle massive amounts of air whilst not dumping it out of the return pipe and balancing contact time.

I would go with a recirc style pump and a seperate feed rather than an intergrated feed/air pump as that would add another layer of complexity to the build due to back pressure/head and air-water ratio being balanced.

Itll be a great project and something i have always wanted to have a crack at myself.
 
Tony are you saying putting a beckett valve in the re-circ plumbing would work?
 
Sorry Neil i was refering to a needle wheel style pump, there was a skimmer design that include a beckett esque injector post pump with a paddle wheel impellor. It was o.k and had a few followers but some did complain about the bubble size.

To get a good air injection post pump requires a beefy old pump capable of pushing a fair amount of water around, the upside is that there is no loss in pump flow as far as im aware compared to needle wheel which will drop flow with air addition. Becketts for me at least are a brute force method of bubble production and its often difficult to impossible to achieve the small bubble size from them that you can from a venturi needle wheel depending on injector design.As i say though im not that experienced with regards to Becketts so tech may have moved on some.
 
Cool Tony thanks for the feedback...

tell me in terms of a DIY skimmer on a 1000L system would you have say a 3000L feed pump with no venturi and then a say 3000L pump with a venturi as the recirc pump ? what combination and what pumps would you go for to filter a 1000L system ?

would you say that the pump must be related to the system volume and sump throughput and if so what is that relationship..... eg a 1000L system should have a skimmer throughput of 3x the tank vol per hour ie something like the HY3000 which would also match the return pump of ones system??
 
This is a difficult one to gauge Neil as it depends on the skimmers efficiency to a large degree and the way the sump is set up.If running a DSB off the main tank in the sump for instance may only want a slow flow though the sump so this would also effect the skimmer pick up and turn over from the main system.

Lets say for an instance and a ballpark that you are using or have designed a decent skimmer.

If your using a skimmer designed for 1000 liters then a water flow though it of between x0.75-x1.5 is usually about right depending on contact time/design and air volume, so 750-1500 lt/hr from the feed pump.

The good venturi pumps i have used have a ratio of around 1 air to 2 water so if using a 3000 lt/hr pump you should be looking at producing around 600- 1000 liters of air as a DIY project. The latest pump designs push the envelope even further to anything up to around 1-1 ratio of air to water or more.

1-2 is probably the best you could achieve from a home made pump without drastically modifying the pump design .At high volumes of air there is a risk of damaging the pump due to lack of lubrication or premature bearing/shaft wear and impeller stalling.

You could increase the throughput through the skimmer but that will mean designing a skimmer that could handle around 1500-2000 ltrs of air so you could increase the flow through it to between 2500-3000 liters and hour. So you might be looking at two recirc air pumps depending how much air each pulls and a body/neck design to make the most of the pumps.

Most of the design work will be suck it and see unless you have a solid back ground in skimmer design.This is why most of the cheaper skimmer manufacturers from china copy German skimmers as getting a skimmer right takes time,money,equipment and skillful experience so they short cut and still dont get it right lol.
 
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