I was hoping not to return to this, but some things simply can't be left unsaid.
Exactly my point - miniscule amounts of a substance (Allicin) which is not a natural food for marine fish, which is HIGHLY UNSTABLE and prone to breakdown (especially during the processing of the fish food), and which is neutralized by the acidic environment in the gastric cavity of the fish (rendering it useless) cannot be anything BUT a sales gimmick.
As I have mentioned elsewhere, various forms of garlic, which contain no active allicin, have demonstrated a wide array of benefits in certain health studies. Therefore, it is logical, and at least possible, that compounds other than allicin are responsible for such benefits, and could also be responsible in providing those same benefits, to fish. To date, well over 100 compounds have been identified in various garlic preparations.
Though individual compounds, such as S-allyl cysteine, have shown activity in studies and are absorbed by the body, it is likely that a synergism of various compounds provide the benefits of garlic. This is in agreement with Dr. Koch, a renowned Austrian scientist who stated that the activity of various sulfur compounds could not alone be responsible for the benefits of garlic and fixation on a single group of components can lead to mistakes and wrong conclusions.
One of the main reasons that garlic has been utilized within the aquaculture circles is due to it being a natural substance, and FAR safer in most applications than using man made chemical alternatives, most of which contain known carcinogens. Plus, when these types of chemicals & antibiotics are used in massive quantities, such as they are in commercial applications, guess where they all eventually end up?
Our soil, our water, our planet. They don't just go "poof" and disappear, and they can end up in the very waterways that our fish are collected from.
The vast majority of salmon farms are in fact coastal operations, so when parasites & various other pathogens, along with the "medicine" used to treat them, get spilled over into the wild, take a guess what happens? And if those bugs aren't 100% eliminated before they enter the ocean, the potential for creating
super bugs is a very real concern too. We then turn around & collect many of these now contaminated fish, and harvest them for human consumption, as well as for fish feed.
How natural does that sound to you?
An interesting read on this subject.
Engineering R&D: Natural solutions to fish-farm infections - Columns - Food Engineering____
And another scientist that has been looking into safer, more natural alternatives to treating various disease & parasites in fish.
Fisheries & Aquaculture | Vancouver Island University (VIU)
Author(s): Soko, C.K.; Barker, D.E.
Source: Aquaculture Association of Canada Special Publication 9 : 108-110 : 2005
Abstract: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (Fouquet), a ciliated protozoan parasite, causes white spot 'VC disease ('ich') on many different freshwater fishes. Previously, these infections were treated with malachite green, a compound now banned on food fish due to its carcinogenicity. As an alternative, "safe" treatment, crushed garlic (Allium sativum) and lemon juice (bioflavinols) have been used to control infestations of I. multifiliis and other parasites, but their efficacy has not been reported from controlled studies. To determine the toxicity of crushed garlic and lemon juice, two trials were conducted between July 2003 and September 2004. Various biological indices (condition factors, specific growth rates, feed conversion ratios), histopathology, and blood immunology data were used to assess treatment efficacy and determine if there were any sub-lethal effects on the fish. Crushed garlic (3 g/L) in a continuous static bath exposure was the most effective treatment, whereas the lemon extracts were least effective and resulted in unfavourable water conditions (reduced pH).
ISSN: 1180-3835
And yet another ..........
VLIZ - Integrated Marine Informations System - IMIS
Both onion and garlic have been further tested during 1991 at Austevoll Aquaculture Research Station. Both have been mixed in moist pellet at a 10% level (wet weight basis ). The salmon fed onions showed at no time lower concentrations of lice but the salmon fed garlic had a significantly lower level of lice compared to the control after 14 days.
Pablo is very much an environmentalist, he has fruit trees throughout his property (pesticide free), a large organic flower garden in his courtyard, where he can spend hours telling you about the different species of butterflies that spend their days there. He doesn't wear expensive Italian suits, and is typically seen wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip-flops. lol The vehicle that he drives isn't some gas guzzling, oil burning SUV, he drives a hybrid. He's a simple down to earth person, who at his age is very much concerned about our planet, and the current state that it is in.
He began exploring the use of garlic many years ago, for some of the same reasons that many scientists are now exploring its use. In his early trials he was able to keep his fish farm free of a very nasty pathogen that was so bad at one point that he had to close his operation down for a few months just to eradicate it. 17 years later, and he has never once experienced this same problem again, while many farms around him, have. (Aeromonas hydrophila)
Just dumb luck you say, I don't think so.
Effect of Allium sativum on the immunity and survival of Labeo rohita infected with Aeromonas hydrophila
S. Sahu, B. K. Das, B. K. Mishra, J. Pradhan and N. Sarangi
Aquatic Animal Health Division, Central Institute of Freshwater Aquaculture, Kausalyaganga, Bhubaneswar, India
Journal of Applied Ichthyology, Volume 23 Issue 1, Pages 80 - 86
Summary
The aim of this study was to evaluate dietary dosages of garlic on the immune response and disease resistance against infections due to the opportunistic pathogen Aeromonas hydrophila in Labeo rohita fingerlings. Garlic, Allium sativum, was incorporated into the diets (0%, 0.1%, 0.5% and 1.0%) of rohu, L. rohita fingerlings (10 ± 2 g). Every 20 days, different biochemical (serum total protein, albumin, globulin, albumin : globulin ratio, blood glucose), haematological (WBC, RBC and haemoglobin content) and immunological (superoxide anion production, lysozyme activity and serum bactericidal activity) parameters were evaluated. Superoxide anion production, lysozyme, serum bactericidal, serum protein and albumin were enhanced in garlic treated groups compared with the control group. After 60 days, fish were challenged with A. hydrophila and mortality (%) was recorded up to day 10 post-challenge. Survival decreased in control group (57%) up to day 10 after infection. However, this was increased in the garlic treatment group, i.e. 85% survivability in the 1 g garlic kg−1 (B group) and 5 g garlic kg−1 (C group), and 71% survivability in the 10 g garlic kg−1 (D group), respectively. These results indicate that Allium sativum stimulates the immunity and makes L. rohita more resistant to infection by A. hydrophila.
I have never once stated that garlic is the be all to end all, and I have no doubt that there is much to be studied before the entire scientific community is going to get behind its use for all fish species, but it's very difficult to argue with when you see the results first hand. If you choose to not use foods that contain any amount of garlic in any form, that's certainly your prerogative. I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head. Your fish, your call.
And yes, while Joe Yaiullo obviously doesn't feed this product exclusively, he also isn't maintaining some piddly 100 gallon FOWLR tank either. He has numerous fish, numerous species, and it's a massive
reef tank, which are typically far more sensitive to most elements compared to fish. He's also been using it for 8 or 9 yrs now, not just a few weeks or months.
I am not disputing the fact that your product could be a decent fish food, but knowing how commercial facilities work I would venture a guess that price and availability also play an important role in deciding what brand of food to buy.
To be honest, most manufacturers would most likely give a
major discount to customers such as Joe Yaiullo, or Charles Delbeek at the Steinhart Aquarium, or they would write it off completely, just for bragging rights. As far as I'm aware, Pablo does neither. And these aren't the only public aquariums Pablo, or myself deal with.
A few years back I spoke with a very well known & highly respected professor at the University of Florida in the Dept of Fisheries & Aquatic Sciences, who specializes in dietary habits & nutritional disorders of both freshwater & marine fish. I was told that her dept had used New Life Spectrum
for years, as a control diet in their marine studies, as well as for all newly arrived wild caught marine fish that are placed into quarantine, and that "it performs very well". This person has been to Pablo's home, seen his tanks, seen his fish, and no doubt the scientist in her is also puzzled as to exactly how & why his food works so well.
I'm quite certain that Pablo could provide scientific studies with ringing endorsement for his food, and it wouldn't change a thing with the people that have already decided to make a rush in judgement about his morals, integrity, and/or the quality of his products. I can also assure you that unless Pablo becomes senile in his old age, and loses his mind, he will never release such studies to the general public no matter how much they may question some of the ingredients. No offense, but that part of the equation is indeed business.
So I'm curious, if/when one of your fish become ill, what type of
natural cures does everyone on this forum use to treat those issues? Surely you don't use chemical substances where the long term effects of these drugs on marine fish has never been fully studied.
, so apologies if I have this totally wrong) - the same thread surfaces here on MASA AND on Ultimate Reef, and then RD just happens to "track down this same topic" on both forums and then responds with a lengthy, and obviously well researched and well written "Infomercial" - all without paying a cent for advertising on MASA...
and drinking water from rivers not mac d or
