An In depth approach to Lighting

I have to add on to Jaco's pricing. I believe the T5 ballasts are electronic and the cheap MH ballast isn't. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I then feel you have to compare correctly. So when you add the cost of an electronic ballast to the MH scenario it will be a lot closer to the T5's pricing.

Then lets face it, I think most people that are using MH's are also using at least 2 T5's for supplemental light so we need to add that to the scenario.
 
ok pricing is not really so simple as what we trying to make it seem guys,we all have diff needs and budgets so do some research and make your own decision,let me give you a simple example.

1.On my nano i went MH as it simply costed me 1x150w flood light type MH fitting,no diy lol I simply bolted it on top and perfect total cost to me R600-00 incl 20000k venture.
2.On my 1,1m tank which is shallow(400mm high) i simply use six of the phillips 865's in t8.Ballasts(electronic) cost R135 each and globes R15.total cost R495..

as you can see it cost me cheaper to light up a bigger tank than the smaller one yet i would say both could sustain sps easily(the nano is mixed with some sps,and the 4ft is an anemone tank.

in my nano if i used t5(t8 obviously wouldnt work here as high powered t8's in low wattages are not really available) then i would need 6x24w t5 which would cost over R1200 and i would waste alot of light as the top of the tank is 40cm wide while 24w t5 is 55cm wide.

if you think i'm not a fan of t5 then your wrong as my biggest and deepest tank(75cm deep) is lit only by 54w t5's and they work well as the hood cannot accommadate MH,t5 simply rest on the cross braces.another reason i did this on my big tank was i was still a student at the time of setting it up and found it easier to add two globes at time as my budget allowed.

What i'm saying is that everyones costing needs are different and complicated.It cannot be covered by this thread no matter how hard we try theres always other factors like where they buy from etc.
between t5 and mh its neither here nor there cost wise,but with t8 its always cheaper.

If you go t8 you need to pay very close attention to the globes and ballasts you use,as most conventional t8 globes are useless for reefs.
 
Dolphin said:
very interesting read with some great info, thanks!

My "dilema" is - how do CFL's compare to T5 and MH. Say you have 10 CFL's of 15W each which total 150W with a Kelvin of 6400K (perfect for growing corals) that costs about R300 for all 10 CFLs, Fitting and Wiring.

The questions become:
1. How high above the water surface must the CFL be mounted?
2. Will it have the same effect of equivalent T5/MH bulbs with the same total watts?NO much less lm and wrong colour
3. How often must the CFL be changed?
Click to expand...

do some googling on the cfl globe in question....check a normal osram for example here
cfl 16w osram 2pin square
as you can see it only gives of 1050lm per 16w so thats 65lm per watt (not very efficient,t5 and mh etc get around 90lm/w)

then the colour is also wrong its 2700k :nono: not 6500k

theres no other colours available that i know of in square cfl,atleast not easily and cheaply available.

I would personally not use or advise the use of cfl in a reef tank.;) for cheato or sump lighting yeah sure go ahead and use some 'cool white'(+-6500k) osram or phillips energy savers in ES or BC.
 
Falcon if i may ask why didnt you go 70 watt metal halide on that nano? Do u use any suplemental lighting and how high above is the light? Reason for asking is i have a nano im busy modifying
 
Johan van Aardt said:
Falcon if i may ask why didnt you go 70 watt metal halide on that nano? Do u use any suplemental lighting and how high above is the light? Reason for asking is i have a nano im busy modifying
Click to expand...

the reason for using 150w is simple,AVAILABILITY(70w would have costed me more and i dont know where to even get it lol) and secondly i wanted this to either be an anemone or sps ready nano so rather more then less.

yes i do use one 14w phillips energy saver.when i set it up there were two as temporary lights before the mh came but i found my 20000k mh to be too blue for my liking.when i replace the mh globe in a few months however i will be using only a 14000k blv 150w globe as this will be the colour i want and the energy saver will be removed from the system.

the light is 10cm away from the water,in summer if this heats the water up too much then i will raise it a bit.
 
Excellent thread and very interesting information, Thanks Falcon...

Just one question, Why do i get full polyp extension under T5s and my LPS looks alot bigger then under MH?
 
Ridwaan said:
Excellent thread and very interesting information, Thanks Falcon...

Just one question, Why do i get full polyp extension under T5s and my LPS looks alot bigger then under MH?
Click to expand...

you'll have to be more specific as to the size of tank and amount of t5 or mh used in this comparison...also there could be other factors in play like water conditions and acclimatisation periods if the one light is brighter than the others,could you be more specific as to how you got this conclusion?
 
Falcon said:
do some googling on the cfl globe in question....check a normal osram for example here
cfl 16w osram 2pin square
as you can see it only gives of 1050lm per 16w so thats 65lm per watt (not very efficient,t5 and mh etc get around 90lm/w)

then the colour is also wrong its 2700k :nono: not 6500k

theres no other colours available that i know of in square cfl,atleast not easily and cheaply available.

I would personally not use or advise the use of cfl in a reef tank.;) for cheato or sump lighting yeah sure go ahead and use some 'cool white'(+-6500k) osram or phillips energy savers in ES or BC.
Click to expand...

there are the screw in type available in 6400K - 15W R19 and a 32W R40. cant get any info on the lm per watt on these, still checking.
 
Dolphin said:
there are the screw in type available in 6400K - 15W R19 and a 32W R40. cant get any info on the lm per watt on these, still checking.
Click to expand...

good for your refuguim buddy,it'll look too yellow still for a reef and not enough lm per watt you'd have to use quite a bit more watts to get required lumens for corals.
 
the advantage i see in using t5 it's that you can mix de t° of colour .
EX : 2x10000k + 2x15000k + .... and so on as needed .
less heating in summer .
i can tell budget wise as i don't know at what a R is equal in euro and what's the average salary in your country
 
Hi Falcon,

Thanks for the great read. My dt is 1500x650x650mm. I am currntly in the lighting dilema. I have 2 x 150w MH's running (old type gear). I put these in to test the water so to speak. I also have 2 x 150w MH's with electronic gear and a 250w MH with old type gear spare. It seems that the 2 x 150w MH's are not bright enough. I am considdering changing to the electronic gear and placing the 250w MH in the centre of the other 150's. Would this option or a third 150 be better for my system? I am going to keep fish, inverts & softies for a while. I don't think I will venture to hard corals in the next year or so. This in mind, what would you suggest in terms of globes? I don't know what their ratings are but look white to the eye but over the water the light appears yellow.
Can you offer me some advice please.

Thanks,
Tim
 
Tim S said:
Hi Falcon,

Thanks for the great read. My dt is 1500x650x650mm. I am currntly in the lighting dilema. I have 2 x 150w MH's running (old type gear). I put these in to test the water so to speak. I also have 2 x 150w MH's with electronic gear and a 250w MH with old type gear spare. It seems that the 2 x 150w MH's are not bright enough. I am considdering changing to the electronic gear and placing the 250w MH in the centre of the other 150's. Would this option or a third 150 be better for my system? I am going to keep fish, inverts & softies for a while. I don't think I will venture to hard corals in the next year or so. This in mind, what would you suggest in terms of globes? I don't know what their ratings are but look white to the eye but over the water the light appears yellow.
Can you offer me some advice please.

Thanks,
Tim
Click to expand...

hey there tim,my pleasure man.

Actually your not in much of a dilemma your solution to lighting is quite simple really.You already have two electronic mh units right?put them in asap lol....but just be careful with bulb selection as not all mh globes are electronic ballasts compatible a few are not.


ok so you have around 630 lt of water and medium depth tank so mh was a good idea.a sps tank of this nature would not have less than 57000lm average ok so if you use your 2x150w mh with 12000k globes and the 250w in the center with 12000k globes you should get around 45000lm of light which is enough for you to start with and your corals wil be happier.btw:i'm sure you want the tank to appear evenly lit and so you should make sure all three mh have the same colour.

now 12000k may not be blue enough for you(i think you currently have 6500k globes which are sunlight white but when in tank they appear quite yellowish.ok so theres two options for you:


A.use ONLY the 2x150w electronic and normal 250w with 12000-14000k globes(14000k blv should be blue enough).

AND THEN when you wanna go sps and hard corals change the globes to 10000k and add four x t5 pure actinic 39w or 54w or even 2x80w t5 pure actinic to make it appear more blue and give you enough light for sps.

B.if your budget allows then simply do the second part now instead of in a years time and your sorted.
 
when going for 10000k globes contact venture lighting in CT they do a good globe for a reasonable price,dont go for the 20000k,it may be nice and blue but gives of much much less lumens than the 10000k globe.

mekaael also had some nice 14000k globes in his 1,8m tank contact him for details if you want to go the 14000k route as i cant remember the name.
 
Falcon said:
THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR NEWBIES TO UNDERSTAND MY ENTIRE POST. 1. 2 X 150W VENTURE 6500K METAL HALIDE(14000lm each) = 300W 2. 6 X OSRAM 880 SKYWHITE 54W T5(4700lm each) = 324W 3. 12.2 X OSRAM BIOLUX 36W T8 (2300lm each) = 438W 4. 8,5 x Phillips T8 865 36w(3240lm each) = 306 W
Click to expand...

Falcon!!!

Interesting thread! I need to add my 2c to this as well...Maybe I'm missing something but as far as I can see, the T8's are actually the second most efficient lighting system to get to the 28 000 lm mark. To make my point more clear, I'll put it as a ratio to give a better idea of what I mean. Basically the ratio is the light intensity (in lm) divided by required electrical power supply. So its a good indication of how much light you getting per watt of electricity (lm/W).

For a MH lamp : 14000/150 = 93.33 lm/W
T5 lamp : 4700/54 = 87.03 lm/W
Osram lamp: 2300/36 = 63.89 lm/W
T8 lamp: = 3240/36 = 90 lm/W

So from this it seems like the T8 isn't so bad. You may have to make a monster of a cover for your 4ft tank but the maths shows some prospect in my opinion. What will be really interesting is to actually compare this to LED lights. I don't have the specs here but I'll look for them later.
 
Prash06 said:
Falcon!!!

Interesting thread! I need to add my 2c to this as well...Maybe I'm missing something but as far as I can see, the T8's are actually the second most efficient lighting system to get to the 28 000 lm mark. To make my point more clear, I'll put it as a ratio to give a better idea of what I mean. Basically the ratio is the light intensity (in lm) divided by required electrical power supply. So its a good indication of how much light you getting per watt of electricity (lm/W).

For a MH lamp : 14000/150 = 93.33 lm/W
T5 lamp : 4700/54 = 87.03 lm/W
Osram lamp: 2300/36 = 63.89 lm/W
T8 lamp: = 3240/36 = 90 lm/W

So from this it seems like the T8 isn't so bad. You may have to make a monster of a cover for your 4ft tank but the maths shows some prospect in my opinion. What will be really interesting is to actually compare this to LED lights. I don't have the specs here but I'll look for them later.
Click to expand...

Spot on buddy,but like LED all t8 is not the same,check the osram biolux-quite inefficient and also bear in mind t8 takes alot of space so i would ideally use it in a shallow tank with a lot of water surface area at the top ie wide and long tank but not a deep tank since the size makes it hard to get alot of lumens in a small point.

I actually used them on my 1,1m tank which is 450 deep and i successfully kept a magnifica in there for around a year(its now closed down so magnifica in another tank) but yes the hood was sticking out sideways:)

LED has a slight advantage when it comes to lumens/actual par hitting the corals as the lenses and optics send more light down than reflectors can,but its not so great an advantage as many think since good quality reflectors can transmit over 90% of the usable light in the right direction and hence the need to find only efficient LED's....do post more info on the LED's in question.
 
Thank you for this , nice read!

I have 8 T5 54 w globes - meaning then on average 4700/54=87.03 Lm/W, gives me more or less 54 x 8 = 432W x 87.03 = 37596.96 lm in my DT.

If I am reading this correct, I might even be able to keep SPS ?
 
Last edited:
Jeann1 said:
Thank you for this , nice read!

I have 8 T5 54 w globes - meaning then on average 4700/54=87.03 Lm/W, gives me more or less 54 x 8 = 432W x 87.03 = 37596.96 lm in my DT.

If I am reading this correct, I might even be able to keep SPS ?
Click to expand...

jeann I just checked your tank now....you ideally need around 70 000 for an sps tank that size(as you have a deep 630lt display) and to get them to thrive and colour up.

If you place a few higher up in good flow and directly under a few globes it should survive and may even grow slowly but you will not get the awesome results as others are getting in proper sps set-ups so i suggest you stick to lps/softies and keep the lps more towards the top,your lighting is good enough for softies only at the bottom or other less light demanding corals like sun corals etc(although these have even greater demands!lol speak to jaco schoeman or do some proper research on taking care of nps corals) but if you dont want that difficult route just put mushrooms etc on the bottom;)
 
Last edited:
I have spent lots of time and bucks in the last couple of months on lighting. For years I have been running 400w metal halides 20k with magnetic ballasts. These lights rock but a heavy on electricity bills. I changed to 10t5, running all Giesemann bulbs, but that got thrown out after 1 month. I personally dont like t5 only tank, I might a bit blind. I than went for 250w BLV 14k SE with magnetic ballast in just an of the shelf pendant. Its still currently running and me love it, gives nice colour not too blue and very bright. Well know I got myself the real thing I dreamt about having for years, The Aquamedic Sunlight, 2x250w DE, 4x54 t5 pendant. They call it the Sunlight as thing is very bright and pwerfull. One has to experiment when it comes to lighting to see what works for you and the type of coral you want to keep. If you want to go the t5 for me only the most expensive bulbs seem to work, you might get a shock when yu here those prices.
 
I've been doing a bit of reading about this because I'm also a skeptic on having a bunch of T5's and T8's to get high lighting requirements. But the way that I see it is that there is a lot more to the lighting requirement. Essentially our aim is to try to simulate sunlight (when lighting is concerned) and its effect at the sea bed. And this brings a whole lot of factors into account. We need to account for not just the intensity of light but I'm sure the spectrum of light that enters the tank. In this case I think is when MH's "shines out" from the rest. I know for a fact that water absorbs certain spectrum of light so this could also have a slight factor for deeper tanks. And I'm also not too sure what is the spectrum of light in terms of non visible rays from lamps. This I still need to look up.

I've also been doing a bit of reading in terms of the definition of the parameter Lumens and what I can gather is that its the intensity (luminous flux) of light multiplied by the "area" at which it shines on. I'm not going to any detail but I think this is what's also misleading when it comes to looking at this parameter for aquariums. Because the "area" at which light is emitted for a flourescent light bulb is essentially more than a MH (since the light is directed downwards) which is maybe why the intensity of light in terms of lumens is more for the MH than for an equivalent set of T5's and T8's in a marine aquarium.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom