Whitespot - new sailfin and cleaner shrimp

according to this part

Symptoms
The symptoms of marine velvet usually involve the skin and lungs. Mild infections will usually only infect the gills and the fish may show minimal symptoms. As the infestation becomes more severe, the gills will become inflamed, bleed, and the lung tissue will begin to die. The fish will show signs of irritation and distress, with rapid breathing and lethargy. As the inflammation increases, the fish will lose its ability to transport oxygen across the gill membranes resulting in a fish that shows symptoms of suffocation, and if treatment is not initiated, death will often result.
The skin is the site of attachment for the organism and in severe infections, small gold-colored spots will cover the skin, which can progress to create a "velvet" appearance which gives the disease its name. By the time the gold-colored velvet appears, however, the gills may be so infected that treatment is usually too late. Many fish die from this disease without ever showing any visible skin changes. It may be possible to visualize early forms of the infection on the skin by using indirect illumination. This works best on dark fish and can be done by shining a flashlight on the dorsal surface of a fish in a darkened room. Viewing infected fish against a dark background may also be helpful.

Marked the important part in red.
Marine Velvet Disease

As I understand it Ich is a lot more on the skin, where velvet primary effect the gills. If a lot of marks are visible on the skin, with velvet you should have the fish gasping for air. Slime layer also increases.

No marketable increase in mucous or no gaping for air with a lot of spots on the fish, more likely Ich.

Please feel free if anybody disagree.
After all. I'm not a marine biologist.
 
If I go by the symptom description as given by Liveaquaria
Marine Velvet Disease

I will go with Ich.

According to that article, Velvet at a stage where the skin gets noticeable infected, the fish gills are completely infected. And that would lead me to think that the fish will be gasping for air by that time.

So by elimination. I go back onto Ich.
 
Brooklynella hostilis
Most similar symptomatically to Oodinium, this too is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills first. At the onset fish may scrap up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Fish become lethargic, refuse to eat, and colors fade, but the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced. As the disease progresses a thick whitish mucus covers the body, usually starting at the head and spreading outward, skin lesions appear, and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise.

Clownfish Disease: Brooklynella Diagnosis and Treatment

Again, not enough slime on those fish in the pictures
 
Bud you will get a answer very soon. I hope you are taking in the process of ID a disease.

:m106:

Not only him, some may be quiet about this but wow, this helps!!
Should be moved to another section and stickied, extremely informative.
The only other thing to say is thank you and Riaan for your time to talk a multitude of people through this process..
 
Not only him, some may be quiet about this but wow, this helps!!
Should be moved to another section and stickied, extremely informative.
The only other thing to say is thank you and Riaan for your time to talk a multitude of people through this process..

YES! This is awesome! I'm nervous to go home later, but a big Thank you @RiaanP & @ Nemos Janitor
 
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Yes, I missed one. intentionally, but worth a mention. Not very commonly diagnosed but it does pop up frequently and looks like WS.
Cryptobia.
 
You guys might find it difficult to find info on "Sporozoans"

Sporozoans is a disease that normally attacks "sea horses". however they do also attack other fishes.
Symptoms are white nodules or deposits on the skin. They are easily confused with Cryptocaron to the naked eye.
 
there are a lot more sicknesses that can infect your fish

Stumbled upon this chart. OK, it freshwater and marine.

Parasitic Diseases of Fish: Fish: Merck Veterinary Manual

Scary as hell. QT those fish...

Yes Riaan.:thumbup: It is a wild guess in establishing what disease your fish has. There are thousands.

Fortunately we have a few general educated guesses that we use visually. Hence why I asked you to put up pic's of the most likely ones.

To do an accurate diagnosis one need to do a scraping of the skin of the fish and prepare a slide for microscopic identification. But most reefers don't have that facility. So we rely on advice given here and our own observation.
 
So now we get back to Papitto's concern. How to treat that uncertain/unidentified disease that looks like "WS". What regime should one take?

Lets look at each of the common diseases mentioned below and mention methods of treatment.



1) Amyloodinoisis ("Oodinium" comon name coral fish disease)
2) Cryptocaryon irritans (White spot or marine ich)
3) Brooklynella hostilis
4) Sporozoans
5) Cryptobia

I will start with C irritans. Sorry @RiaanP you can do another one. :tt2:
 
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Quite difficult to find information or pictures about how Sporozoans look on ornamental marine fish, albeit only 30 minutes or so i've had to look into it.
My bad, had to take a phone call and missed the top posts by NJ
 
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Treatment for C irratans has a few options. Formaldehyde, Malachite green, copper sulfate, Praziquantel and Methylene blue are chemical options. Fresh water dips will kill this parasite. Bucket method will also assist due to interruption of reproductive cycle. UV will kill C Irratans on passing through the sterilizer. Ozone will also kill the parasite on passing through the reactor.
 
Oodinium – Marine Velvet or Coral Fish Disease
Treatment: Freshwater dip, QT with copper based medication. Methylene Blue

Cryptocaryon irritans – White spot or Marine Ich
Treatment – Copper, Formalin, Copper and Formalin, Hyposalinity, Daily water changes i.e. Bucket Method

Brooklynella hostilis
Treatment – 15 minute freshwater dip, 15 minute formalin dip followed by long term formalin bath, 25ppm formalin solution or 0.0625ml per litre of water in QT
 
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More...
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts | Reef Sanctuary

Lee "CV"
Lees Bio (a.k.a. leebca) | Reef Sanctuary

And a very interesting test he done. Check out this study he did on garlic
After the Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr. article, Garlic versus 'Marine Ich': Diallyl thiosulfinate activity against Cryptocaryon irritans infestations of marine fish of 2000, from 2005 to 2008 inclusive I conducted some additional garlic juice tests. Fresh garlic juice might prove to be more useful.

I used a 6-sectioned 70 gallon tank, using only the middle 4 sections. One fish in each section. All fishes of one species of Damsel. Garlic juice was of two brands off the LFS shelf except when I made my own. Juice was added to homemade food the fish were exclusively fed. Commercially prepared foods were soaked in it. All fish were healthy at first. Microscopically they seemed to be disease/parasite free and without health issues. They were then infected with Marine Ich and the experiment began when they all displayed. A ‘set’ is with each of the 4 sections contains one-fish each, test running/stopping in 3 months.

2 sets (8) fish were tested, feeding garlic to half the fish at each feeding. 2 fish lived past 3 months; one on garlic, one not on garlic.

2 sets (8) fish were tested, all fish were fed garlic. 1 fish lived past 3 months.

1 set (4) fish were not fed any garlic. 1 fish lived past 3 months

2 sets (8) fish were tested, feeding fresh garlic juice to half the fish at each feeding. 1 fish lived past 3 months.

1 set (4) fish were tested, fresh garlic juice added to water at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. No fish lived past 3 months.

Living fishes were microscopically tested and found to be infected with the Marine Ich parasite.

1 set (4) fish were tested, no garlic juice. Given treatment with Cupramine. all 4 fish were alive at the 3 month mark. All fish tested microscopically to be free of the Marine Ich parasite.

I cannot detect any improvement or advantage to using fresh garlic juice to help marine fish fend off Marine Ich.
32 fish infected and treated with garlic, only 5 fish lived past 3 months. And when testing those survivors, they all still had WS.
Cupramine seems to work, although he is very against copper and see it as poison on some of his articles.

 
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