Your info in MASApedia

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Hey Sara,

I hope I have not stepped on any toes. I was reading through some of the articles in MASApedia the other day when I came across this one:

Cycling Your Tank

I found the info in Step 3: Corals and Anemones a bit different to what I have researched and experienced. So I amended it a bit. Let me know what your opinions on the changes are.
 

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Hey Sara,

I hope I have not stepped on any toes. I was reading through some of the articles in MASApedia the other day when I came across this one:

Cycling Your Tank

I found the info in Step 3: Corals and Anemones a bit different to what I have researched and experienced. So I amended it a bit. Let me know what your opinions on the changes are.
That is what it's for dude, as long as your opinion/research/info is correct then it will stand
 

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That is what it's for dude, as long as your opinion/research/info is correct then it will stand
Agreed, we want it to be updated and improved all the time:thumbup:
 
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Hmmm... obviously I encourage the articles to be amended/added to with more quality info. HOWEVER I'm really uncomfortable with false info being added... such as this:

* Anemones collected from the reef are central to the symbiotic relationship with clown fish. Clown fish do not naturally survive long in the wild without their host anemone, thus it is preferable to not buy them.
The above is just not true. Though it is ideal to have the two together, clowns have been kept quite well without anemones and vice versa.

So, I hope you don't mind, I just distinguished your addition from the rest of the article. I hope that's ok.
 

Kanga

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Sara/Likefish I hope neither of you mind, i have moved the anemone info in the cycling page to a dedicated Anemone page, i think all the info might just be to much for a beginner:):)

Let me know if its ok with you guys
 
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Hmmm... obviously I encourage the articles to be amended/added to with more quality info. HOWEVER I'm really uncomfortable with false info being added... such as this:

The above is just not true. Though it is ideal to have the two together, clowns have been kept quite well without anemones and vice versa.

So, I hope you don't mind, I just distinguished your addition from the rest of the article. I hope that's ok.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I meant - taking anemones from the wild (reefs) WILL cause clownfish also in the wild (reef) to die since in their natural setting - in the reef - clowns do not survive without their host anemones - unlike in our aquariums where they just do fine - especially tank raised clown fish. I was thus referring to clowns in the reefs - not in our aquariums.
 
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I think you misunderstood what I meant. I meant - taking anemones from the wild (reefs) WILL cause clownfish also in the wild (reef) to die since in their natural setting - in the reef - clowns do not survive without their host anemones - unlike in our aquariums where they just do fine - especially tank raised clown fish. I was thus referring to clowns in the reefs - not in our aquariums.
Oh, ok, but I don't think most people would interpret all this from what you wrote (maybe you should clarify this?). But still... I hope you don't mind I'm still skeptical as to the accuracy of this info. Do you have a link/reference on hand? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never heard/read this before...
 
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Maybe I have not written it down clearly. Will fix.

Yes I do - have read (and heard) this from about 7 different "public" sources.

The Anemone FAQ

In the wild, clownfish are never found without an anemone. However, in captivity
anemones are not necessary for the survival of clowns and vice versa.
Another quote was from the BBC "The Blue Planet" - where it was stated that clown fish cannot survive for long in the wild without anemones.

Wikipedia

Their removal can also negatively impact any creatures which share a symbiotic relationship with it, such as clownfish, anemone shrimp, and anemone crabs.
And a host of other verbal sources. Not saying they all are right - just that it convinced me.
 
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Hmm just re-read what I wrote:

Clown fish do not naturally survive long in the wild without their host anemone,
I am not sure how to change it to be more clear? Seems pretty clear to me. But then again I am biased.
 

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Maybe I have not written it down clearly. Will fix.

Yes I do - have read (and heard) this from about 7 different "public" sources.

The Anemone FAQ



Another quote was from the BBC "The Blue Planet" - where it was stated that clown fish cannot survive for long in the wild without anemones.

Wikipedia



And a host of other verbal sources. Not saying they all are right - just that it convinced me.

I hadn't heard that before either, but it does seem logical to assume that when you take away the protective nem' the fishs' chances of survival will be drastically reduced.
 
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Another source:

Third, any anemone removed from a coral reef area also removes any possibility of clownfishes from that area, because in the wild these fishes require the anemone's presence for their survival.
Ronald L. Shimek (Marine Invertebrates, page 82.)
 
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I don't have any scientific information to add to this, rather some personal observation.

Whilst collecting anemones in Mauritius, clownfish from a removed anemone would hang around confused for a while, and then move on to another anemone located on the same rock structure, literally a few centimeters apart. The clowns were accepted by the residents of the neighbouring anemone, although they stayed towards the outer parameter of the anemone. (Personally I would put that down to siblings and an asexually produced clone....... perhaps??)

Whilst living on a tropical islet, in Madagascar, I noticed that when an anemone was removed, clownfish would hover around and when they eventually moved on to another anemone, they would be agressively attacked by resident clowns. (Personally I would put that down to siblings and an asexually produced clone....... perhaps??)

Considering the swimming action and vulnerability of clowns, I can see how removal of host anemones could have a potentially devasting effect on clownfish populations.
 
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Another source:

Third, any anemone removed from a coral reef area also removes any possibility of clownfishes from that area, because in the wild these fishes require the anemone's presence for their survival.
Ronald L. Shimek (Marine Invertebrates, page 82.)
Hmm, ok, but I think Dr. Shimek is talking about removal of anemones from an entire area...
 
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Whilst living on a tropical islet, in Madagascar, I noticed that when an anemone was removed, clownfish would hover around and when they eventually moved on to another anemone, they would be agressively attacked by resident clowns. (Personally I would put that down to siblings and an asexually produced clone....... perhaps??)
This makes sense... it makes sense that the clown fish would die of some indirect consequence of the anemone's sudden absence (such as sudden vulnerability). Again, I can see how taking an anemone from a wild clown hosting in it would put the clown fish in peril. However, I'm not convinced that the taking of the anemone, by itself, would mean certain death.

In any case, it's just not the case with captive kept clown fish (even when they're wild caught). In fact, there are places that breed clown fish without anemones. So the clowns must be happy/healthy enough without one (if they're breeding). And I believe that in many cases, the babies are raised on into adulthood without ever even seeing an anemone.
 
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Hmm, ok, but I think Dr. Shimek is talking about removal of anemones from an entire area...
True, but then again I highly doubt people collecting anemones would collect only one in an area - but I could be wrong.
 

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Well, i think we can agree that taking nem's from the wild is not great for the clowns and that there is probably little need for it considering the progess made in splitting nem's, add to that many of them split naturally in our tanks, there seems little need to collect wild ones.
 
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This makes sense... it makes sense that the clown fish would die of some indirect consequence of the anemone's sudden absence (such as sudden vulnerability). Again, I can see how taking an anemone from a wild clown hosting in it would put the clown fish in peril. However, I'm not convinced that the taking of the anemone, by itself, would mean certain death.

In any case, it's just not the case with captive kept clown fish (even when they're wild caught). In fact, there are places that breed clown fish without anemones. So the clowns must be happy/healthy enough without one (if they're breeding). And I believe that in many cases, the babies are raised on into adulthood without ever even seeing an anemone.
As I said: "Clown fish do not naturally survive long in the wild without their host anemone" I never said certain death immediately. I said they do not naturally survive for long without their host anemone. Which means if they manage to find another then they would be fine. But it reduces their survival rate since AFAIK most anemones are already taken by clownfish for any given area, so they cannot easily find another one.

And I fully agree - captive bred clowns to not require anemones, but the reason for that is simply (I believe) because in our aquariums we normally do not introduce predators on clowns - so they do not need the anemone for protection (AFAIK the only reason they need them in the wild).
 
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Cool... I think we're all on the same page now (or close to it). Thanks for clarifying and the good discussion here. :)
 

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