Would this work?

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by brendanpre, 2 Apr 2010.

  1. brendanpre

    brendanpre

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    Hi guys and girls

    I have a question. Today I was told that if you only want to keep three or four fish, on a micro bodget, you can get 2 foot tank, undergravel filter, 1 powerhead and lots of live rock. The guy said that the live rock does enough filtration to sustain this setup.

    I'm new to this, but this seems to go against everything i've read so far with regards to build up of nasties in the water.

    So, what do you think?

    Brendan
     
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  3. mnd123

    mnd123

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    Undergravel filters are old technology imo
     
  4. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    The can work and yes it is cheaper BUT your regular maintanance gets too much to an extent where you would want to pack it in .... Firstly the ideal substrate in marines would be as small as possible so as to allow micro organisms to grow nicely forming part of your natural filtering system and food for your fishies ... now with an undergravel filter this is not possible as everything will be out of reach or clogging up the undergravel sheets ... then if the substrate is slightly bigger particals then you going to end up with "detritus" dirt and food getting lodged inbetween the particals causing you to regularly "vacume" the floor - not good fr marines bud
     
  5. brendanpre

    brendanpre Thread Starter

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    ya, I also think so.
     
  6. lIghty

    lIghty

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    I personally wouldn't use a undergravel filter. I would rather go with live rock and a powerhead with bio filter.

    if you could, try put a small skimmer on it, nothing fancy.
     
  7. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    So, how can I explain this, so that you will understand?
    I give it a try. A two foot tank will be 600 x400x400, right?
    Put a powerhead with a sponge filter cartridge in the left corner.
    In the right corner on the bottom, you put a gravelfilter 20 x 30 cm. The 30 cm has to go against the backscreen. Cover the gravelfilter with crushed coral sand, 10 cm high.
    Use the same coralsand as gravel and cover the bottom from the tank with 3 to 5 cm.
    It will look like, there is a heap in the right corner. The outlet from the powerhead has to lead into your gravelfilter. The rough dirt gets caught in the sponge filter cartidge and clear but polluted water will come out of th powerhead. Your gravelfilter will not clog and the heap of gravel will be your filtermedia.
    Put liverock in the left corner and middle if you like.
    Mount a cheap sun sun pump 3000 ltr per hour in the right top corner.
    During feeding time, switch the sun sun pump off.
    Add first two shrimps and hermits. Feed very little every second day for a week.
    Check nitrate, asuming no nitrite and ammonia is present.
    If nitrate is 15 or less mg/l add a pair of clowns or something similar.
    Feed every day once, but not to much. Check nitrate. Still okay, add some other small staying fish. And so on. You can easy put 10 small staying fish into this system.
    Wash out your sponge filter once a week in seawater.
    If you are not living at the coast, take 5 litre out of your tank, wash the sponge in there and top up your tank with fresh seawater.
    Depending on your light, you can keep softcorals as well.
    The corals will also help to take nutrients out.
    18 watts skywhite from Osram and 18 watts blue will be good.
    Now you got something nice and cheap.
    3 to 5 kg liverock is enough. You can add more if you like.
    Or buy mushrooms. Comes with the liverock!
     
  8. mnd123

    mnd123

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    You advocating the old fashioned ways Marcel?

    Better advice imo would be to look at a HOB filter and skimmer rather than large crushed coral on an undergravel filter - rather have a sand bed of the finest substrate you can get to get an aerobic/anaerobic filer going.

    my 2c
     
  9. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    I should mention, the undergravel filter is only a good thing, if you do it as explained.
    Don't suck the water through the undergravel filter. It has to come out of the undergravel filter and it has to be fed by a powerhead WITH sponge filter cartridge!
     
  10. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    No, not old fashioned! It has to be cheap. Now you are coming up with skimmer, etc.
    Because of the heap made from crushed coral sand, there will be enough surface for anaerobic bacteria, as the water always takes the easy way.

    You guys here in SA are full of american influence.
    Everything has to have a sand bed. I never ever had a sand bed in my tanks and this system will work even without a skimmer.

    Remember the Berlin system?
     
  11. brendanpre

    brendanpre Thread Starter

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    So this could work. It doesn't seem ideal, but it could work.

    Interesting.
     
  12. mnd123

    mnd123

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    Nonsense, I come from 15 years of reefkeeping and 15 years ago the UGF was the way to go. The problem was that they advocated large crushed coral, with a very small surface area compared to smaller crushed coral etc, also the larger coral pieces allow detritus and food to fall between the chunks and rot - not ideal imo.

    Not going to argue with you Marcel as you get off on it, in my opinion, and mine alone you are wrong.
     
  13. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    ???
    It doesn't seem ideal? What you were told, that was not ideal.
    You want a cheap solution, now you got one.
     
  14. brendanpre

    brendanpre Thread Starter

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    I meant that when you look at it, it seems like it wouln't work very well, but obviously it does.
     
  15. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    Same thing I was trying to say in my millions of words mnd but yeah you get the idea brendanpre - and its also true what Marcel says - not the ideal but the cheapest way out - I've also seen "crystal clear" waters but it does involve alot more "work" which in the end makes one tired of this hobby
     
  16. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    I'm also for 15 years in the hobby and 15 years ago, a gravel filter was that time already, a no go in a marine tank. In every tank, I have seen in Germany, you found crushed coral sand as gravel.
    In this hobby, there are two many solutions.
    Every solution got his Pro and Contra.
    The question was to find a solution for a cheap system that will work.

    BTW, how do you know, I will get off on it?
    I got a rough idea, where this comment is coming from.


    But to say, Nonsense, means only your opinion is the way to go!
     
    Last edited: 2 Apr 2010
  17. mnd123

    mnd123

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    Last edited: 3 Apr 2010
  18. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    ???
     
  19. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Just been through the uShaka Aquarium wreck display in DBN and now sitting down to a meal. I noticed that they use UG filtration on some of their displays. Especially the jelly fish and sea horse tanks. I take it that the reason is it is effective and produces very limited water flow.
     
  20. chikaboo

    chikaboo

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    Awesome filteration method NJ - our biggest concern is the partical size of our "recommended" substrate ... I used to make my own UG filters with huge airstones connected to grid on the floor "slotted" 32mm conduite pipes.... but then had to use crushed coral as seasand would have clogged up the "slots" but .... crystal crystal water!
     
  21. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    That's right Keith. The benefit is also with pumping the water through UGF and gravel, that the jellies are not going to sink to the bottom and probably keeps the horses food in the column. But I think, that is what you already thought.
     
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