Why Bubble blaster Skimmers are so expensive

Discussion in 'Protein Skimmers, Mechanical Filtration' started by ziyaadb, 17 Feb 2011.

  1. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    Ever wondered why Bubble blaster skimmers are soooo expensive compared to the rest of the range? I recently came across a US site which gave the air pull numbers of the OTP pump range which powers the normal Octo skimmers could not get the figures here. Check the difference between the Bubble blasters and the OTP's:

    OTP 1000 - Up to 180lph air pull - 25W or 30W
    BB 1000 - Up to 600lph air pull - 13W

    OTP 2000 - Up to 420lph air pull - 40W or 50W
    BB 2000 - Up to 1200lph air pull - 24W

    OTP 3000 - Up to 720lph air pull - 65W
    BB 3000 - Up to 1500lph air pull - 35W

    OTP 5000 - Up to 1800lph air pull - 120W
    BB 5000 - Up to 2400lph air pull - 60W


    Heres the link in case u want to see for urself

    http://www.saltycritter.com/protein-skimmers/reef-octopus-pinwheel-nwb-internal-skimmers.htm
     
    Last edited: 17 Feb 2011
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. Adee

    Adee

    Joined:
    5 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Weltevredenpark - JHB
    what does the Sicce PSK-2500 do?
     
  4. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    7 May 2007
    Posts:
    14,546
    Likes Received:
    287
    Location:
    Gonubie East London
    25 watt from what i can remember Adrian.

    i think wattages in general have come down on pumps my Skimz SM202 rated at 2000lt is 20w.
     
  5. Adee

    Adee

    Joined:
    5 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    1,777
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Weltevredenpark - JHB
    thanks...but what is their lph output compared to those two pumps in the first post?
     
  6. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    7 May 2007
    Posts:
    14,546
    Likes Received:
    287
    Location:
    Gonubie East London
    psk is 2500lph, not sure of airdraw though
     
  7. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    Im thinking the Sicce pushes around 750lph - 900lph of air
     
  8. Tremayn

    Tremayn

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    5,226
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Lenasia
    damn! mine uses 120w
     
  9. robvdv

    robvdv

    Joined:
    22 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    798
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Noordhoek, Cape Town
    For fun, let's compare:
    OTP 5000 - Up to 1800lph air pull - 120W
    BB 5000 - Up to 2400lph air pull - 60W

    The 60W difference works out to around 525kW per year. This is about R500 at the rate I buy electricity. The BB is around $220 and the OTP is around $100 from what I can see. This means after around two years the BB will pay itself off.

    Hmm. Assuming the numbers are accurate, quite a clear advantage to the BB.
     
  10. sweetnsour

    sweetnsour

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2009
    Posts:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    JHB East Rand
    After reading this I'm so glad I went with my new skimmer!
     
  11. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    dont forget the price increase in electricity this year and next
     
  12. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    11 May 2008
    Posts:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    JHB
    ok the obvious question

    what is equivilant to what ? clearly an OTP 1000 is not the same as a BB1000

    If i put a BB 1000 on my TS2 it would draw almost the same air as an OTP3000 i.e. a TS3 or a BB2000 and it is almost a TS4 ............

    or am i wrong ?



     
  13. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    its not as simple as that neil. if u put a pump that pushes too much air into a body of a skimmer that is too small it would not work properly as it becomes a foam cannon it actually shoots the skim out of the skimmer (i saw the video a while back where a big pump was put on an otx 200 extreme body and that was blasting the skimmate out like a cannon hehehe, dont know why i never saved the link), you ideally need to match the amount of air u shoving in, to the size of the skimmer body.
    1 of the reasons why the ATB cones are so great is because they achieve this balace excellently, they dont push crazy air numbers but because they are so well balanced in terms of water to air they are some of the best skimmers on the market.

    does that answer your question?
     
  14. Yuri

    Yuri

    Joined:
    9 Jul 2008
    Posts:
    1,999
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Centurion
    I thin the main problem is that reef octopus have a midel man and that is what makes it expensive
     
  15. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    11 May 2008
    Posts:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    JHB
    Afraid not boet :(

    Lets look at a TS4 vs a TS2 ..... the TS4 has what 2 x OTP 5000's if i remember correctly and the TS2 has one OTP2000,

    is the TS4 chamber 10x that of the TS2 ? nope ... forget recirculating etc just talking air into the chamber .....

    The cone skimmers are not markedly larger than the old skimmers especially if we look at say the 1000-INT Bubble blaster in sump skimmer, it runs an HY1000 and is rated to 600L (vs a TS 1 which is rated to 300L and runs a OTP 1000) the TS1 chamber diameter is 110mm and the 1000-INT is 120mm. then the TS2 vs the 2000-int have the same diameter chambers (150mm)..... yet the air injection of the TS2 is 420LPH vs 1200LPH for the 2000-INT..... a MASSIVE difference

    i have no doubt that putting a HY5000 on a TS2 would not work, but i reccon switching OTP pumps with HY pumps should work if the equivilant pump is chosen, i.e. HY2000 for OTP2000
     
  16. mandarinman

    mandarinman

    Joined:
    18 Oct 2007
    Posts:
    6,377
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    capetown,durbanville
    the other difference is the size of the bubbles. the bubble blasters make really nice small bubbles. it seems the gap between the housing and impeller is very small so larger bubbles dont go past the face of the impeller but are beaten smaller by havingto pass through impeller
     
  17. keyaam

    keyaam

    Joined:
    28 Jul 2008
    Posts:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Skimmer design plays a role in the performance of the skimmer as well. The old via aqua sk388 used a 2600 via aqua pump and was just a crap skimmer. Aqua excel are using the same pump on there cone skimmers and man do they rock. 755lph air on a cheap pump!!!
     
  18. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    11 May 2008
    Posts:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    JHB
    i just wish there was a clear way in which the skimmers were rated ....

    is it shape of the skimmer
    is it bubble size
    is it water throughput
    is it air intake

    In reality i understand it it a combination of all of the above but i think the 5th factor is marketing

    i mean a 2000-Int and a TS2 have pretty much the same chambers...... rated to completely different tank volumes ..... WHY ? the both pump 2000L right ? well no the TS2 pumps 2000L less 420L air so 1580L while the 2000-Int is pumping 2000L less 1200L air, so only 800L water .... in the same chamber ?
    do we say x number of air intake is allocated for x L of water so for an OTP 1000 which has 180L it is rated to 300L a OTP 2000 which draws 420L is rated to 500L

    this results in a ratio of 1.1 L of air per 1L of DT in the case of the OTP 2000 and 1.66 in the case of the OTP 2000

    the HY on the other hand has 0.6L of air intake per 1L of DT for the HY2000

    there just seems to be very little pattern.....
     
  19. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    great questions neil, will answer when i am behind a pc as too much to type from a phone.
     
  20. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    7 May 2007
    Posts:
    14,546
    Likes Received:
    287
    Location:
    Gonubie East London
    dont forget to add impellor type

    needle wheel
    needle wheel stippled
    pin wheel
    mesh wheel

    the pump is the driver the impellor is the chopper.;)
     
  21. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    All my answers in Purple

    Afraid not boet :(
    Lets see if i can answer
    Lets look at a TS4 vs a TS2 ..... the TS4 has what 2 x OTP 5000's if i remember correctly and the TS2 has one OTP2000,
    TS 4 - 1*otp5000 or 2*3000's

    is the TS4 chamber 10x that of the TS2 ? nope ... forget recirculating etc just talking air into the chamber .....
    TS2 = 150mm diameter chamber = rough estimate = 2L's
    TS4 = 250mm chamber+higher than TS2 = rough estimate = 10L water so its about 5 times the size of a TS2


    The cone skimmers are not markedly larger than the old skimmers especially if we look at say the 1000-INT Bubble blaster in sump skimmer, it runs an HY1000 and is rated to 600L (vs a TS 1 which is rated to 300L and runs a OTP 1000) the TS1 chamber diameter is 110mm and the 1000-INT is 120mm.
    Yes you are correct but the big difference is the size of the neck due to the amount of air that the BB pushes compared to the TS1. The neck of a Cone BB is about twice if not more then a TS1 due to much more air being pushed in

    then the TS2 vs the 2000-int have the same diameter chambers (150mm)..... yet the air injection of the TS2 is 420LPH vs 1200LPH for the 2000-INT..... a MASSIVE difference
    Yes but again measure the Size of the neck of the BB against the TS and see the difference, Also do not forget that the BB has a different design and bubble plate thus ensuring that Zero bubbles escape the skimmer. with the TS range you have no bubble plate and an ancient design where you have bubbles exiting the skimmer

    i have no doubt that putting a HY5000 on a TS2 would not work, but i reccon switching OTP pumps with HY pumps should work if the equivilant pump is chosen, i.e. HY2000 for OTP2000
    Do it and see how much of bubbles get wasted because of the old design of the TS. Plus you have a tiny neck on the TS you will get a foam cannon. But try it out and see what happens. If i never live so far away from Lanzo i am sure we could have tried it out and seeing the effects.

    i just wish there was a clear way in which the skimmers were rated ....
    Me too;)

    is it shape of the skimmer
    is it bubble size
    is it water throughput
    is it air intake
    Yes to all, The smaller the bubbles, the bigger the pump, the more the air the higher the rating

    In reality i understand it it a combination of all of the above but i think the 5th factor is marketing
    Agreed
    i mean a 2000-Int and a TS2 have pretty much the same chambers...... rated to completely different tank volumes ..... WHY ?
    Pump used and design of skimmer
    the both pump 2000L right ?
    in moving water yes
    well no the TS2 pumps 2000L less 420L air so 1580L while the 2000-Int is pumping 2000L less 1200L air, so only 800L water .... in the same chamber ?
    Not exactly - Both move 2000L of water BUT the TS only generates 420L of air while moving the 2000L of water while the Bubble blaster moves the 2000L of water it generates 1200L of air
    do we say x number of air intake is allocated for x L of water so for an OTP 1000 which has 180L it is rated to 300L a OTP 2000 which draws 420L is rated to 500L
    this results in a ratio of 1.1 L of air per 1L of DT in the case of the OTP 2000 and 1.66 in the case of the OTP 2000
    the HY on the other hand has 0.6L of air intake per 1L of DT for the HY2000
    there just seems to be very little pattern.....
    Erm its the other way around the more air and water the pump moves and generates the higher it is rated. Also cones are rated higher because of the transition of the bubbles to the neck it just goes straight up and does not take any turns to get to the top
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Bubble blaster Skimmers Forum Date
bubble blaster skimmers Protein Skimmers, Mechanical Filtration 3 Aug 2010
[wtd] bubble blaster 5000 pump Wanted 6 Sep 2016
[wtd] Bubble blaster or dc skimmer pump Wanted 30 Mar 2016
[wtd] Bubble blaster 5000 pump Wanted 1 Sep 2015
[wtd] Bubble Blaster 5000 Pinwheel Pump Wanted 19 Apr 2015
[wtd] Bubbleblaster pump Wanted 15 Feb 2015
[wtd] Bubble blaster pump Wanted 7 Feb 2015