Which pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Waterflow' started by mytank, 28 Aug 2012.

  1. mytank

    mytank

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    I am playing with an idea of hosting some filtration outside. Now I have a "storage house" outside but its around 20m from my tank.

    Questions:
    1. What pump would one use to transfer salt water that distance.
    2. Whats the estimated cost +~

    Only thing is noise I can have a pump thats noisy.
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    well the best would be a waterblaster or mag drive pump, i would opt for the water blaster as it can run submerged or external, i am a fan of external, no leaks

    are you going to gravity feed from your tank to the shed?
     
  4. mytank

    mytank Thread Starter

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    Didnt think about that :) I could use my current sump as a holding area to get water from the shed and pump back to the DT, then gravity feed to the sump and some pump to pump it to the shed?
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    what is the flow rate you need between the outhouse and main tank?

    Also any elevation differences?

    How many 90 degree bends could be in the pipe line?

    Do you want to pump to the outhouse via 20mm flexible hose and let gravity overflow back via 50mm PVC pipe?
     
    Last edited: 28 Aug 2012
  6. vatso

    vatso

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    Why would you want 2 sumps? Just pump water from the shed using 50mm pipe there will be no loss of pressure of such a short distance
     
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    My remote DSB uses a 6m flexible hose from my current sump. I'm using gravity for the return.
    That means the remote sump must be at least 200mm higher than your current system.

    Also using 50mm PVC pipe on the return, you need open points, or breather areas. To prevent air build up inside.
    for an idea on how to do it, post 47 and 54
    PlayStation 3 Rebooted - Page 3 - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
     
  8. Jayceew

    Jayceew

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    Because it gives you more options in terms of filtration, extra equipment, liverock, DSB etc etc...

    I'm currently building an extra sump outside, I have a cube tank of 900x900 so the existing sump already houses all the equipment, I want extra liverock and a DSB, where will I put this without an extra sump?
     
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    there are pressure lost. You have to move the total weight of the water in the pipe. The thicker the pipe, the more water, the more head loss.

    Simple experiment. Use a 20mm pipe and check how far your pump can lift water. Then use a 50mm pipe and check again. It is a lot lower, due to the weight of the water in the pipe.

    Over 20m that is a lot of water in 50mm pipe, so unless you use gravity to help you, your pump will have head loss.
     
  10. vatso

    vatso

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    Sorry i mean why not have everything outside can keep just your display and then all the other smelly loud stuff else where if you have the space
     
  11. vatso

    vatso

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    The head height is not going to be 20 meters - smaller pipes move less water - the return needs to move water and is not a flow pump
     
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    yip, one day. That is my final design. Slowly getting there.
     
  13. mytank

    mytank Thread Starter

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    All good points:
    @vatso I would keep a sump for frags, shrimp hatchery, etc. The shed would run all the noisy abd smelly stuff.
    @RiaanP the elevation I would say is 2m once the pioe gets to the area it needs to return to the tank.
    @Jaycee i need to come see your setup :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  14. Jayceew

    Jayceew

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    You are welcome, just give me 3 weeks as the remote sump will hopefully be running by then.

    Cabinet is built, stand is ready and 50mm holes drilled through the wall. Just the actual sump still to come.

    Only condition for the visit is a frag of one of those awesome SPS colonies you have!
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Pump head loss is made up out of a number of things. Number one that we all know about is the height the pump must lift water. Then the total friction inside the pipe. The total weight of the water inside the pipe. Number of elbows. Diameter of the pipe. lastly the consistancy of the liquid but for us its all saltwater so does not make a difference.

    Must see the flow I get using a 30m quarter inch hosepipe connected to a 3000L/h Hailea lifting 1.2m filling a 220L drum. Finish a couple of beers at a relaxed pace before that job is done.
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    using 50mm pipe for the return under gravity should be OK.
    Getting water to the remote shed. First need to answer my first question.
    3000L/h or 6000 or 12000?
    that is the delivered amount, can check pump head loss later.
     
    Last edited: 28 Aug 2012
  17. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    Sorry Riaan, this is completely incorrect.
    Head is head, pipe diameter is irrelevant in your experiment above.

    That said, friction losses (pressure loss) due to flow, will be higher in a smaller diameter pipe.
     
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    nope
    If you got 10L water in an upright pipe whose weight must be supported by the pump pushing up, it will result in back pressure. Compared to same length pipe with only 1L in it, will have a lot less back pressure on the impeller. So yes, too big a diameter pipe can deliver less than a smaller diameter. Obvious with 10kg weight pushing down against the pump compared to 1kg, must have an impact on the performance.

    Same for every 90 degree elbow. Each one results in back pressure, adding to the head height loss.
     
  19. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    Point 1) I suggest you go do some research seeing as you wont take the word of a Professional Mechanical Engineer (that 4 years at Varsity was clearly in vain)

    Point 2) correct
     
  20. vatso

    vatso

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    Nope not right at all - water pressure is measured in height only so
    10 meters of 30mm pipe = 10 meters of 50mm pipe = 10 meters of the ocean

     
  21. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    Edit - see Vatso's post above
     
    Last edited: 28 Aug 2012
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