Water recycle?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by vatso, 24 Feb 2010.

  1. vatso

    vatso

    Joined:
    3 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    JHB
    Hi all

    I have been thinking about this for some time now

    How can we re cycle water? the reason we get rid of our old water is it's full of fish poo & some elements which we not sure of are removed.

    can we not re cycle water - the ocean does & it's been around millions of years that it must carry on producing what is needed else it would all be used up by now.

    my idea is that one has a DSB TANK!! where water is put in & all the cleaning things one can find like plants & shrimps & & &

    One can dose to make sure the CA & MG are all in line.

    would this work??

    DON'T JUST SAY NO!!!! Think about it
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. Manic

    Manic Moderator

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2009
    Posts:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    Johannesburg, Edenvale
    You wont be replacing trace elements then which is the main reason I do water changes. The rest of the nutrients can be removed by effective protein skimming, deep sand beds and other absorption media...
     
  4. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    8 May 2007
    Posts:
    24,229
    Likes Received:
    127
    Location:
    Point Waterfront Durban
    Howzit Mark?
    When we do water changes with freshly made up water or NSW, we are not only adding in Ca & Mg, there are alot of other trace elements in it that we do not test for.
    Now if we recycle water and get the Ca and Mg up, we are still adding every little trace element that is missing from that water. Get what I mean?
     
  5. FransSny

    FransSny

    Joined:
    16 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Hermanus
    vatso, I have also always worried about this...just seems like a lot of water is wasted. But as Mek said, you would have to start adding a lot of different things to get the chemical make up right (most salts advertise 70 odd trace elements)

    Getting the amounts right will be difficult...not to talk about expensive
     
  6. poiromaniax

    poiromaniax MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    12 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Norwood, JHB
    on a similar note,

    What about skimmate? Surely that could be used for plant fertilizer or something - its basically nutrient rich soup :p
     
  7. Manic

    Manic Moderator

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2009
    Posts:
    3,313
    Likes Received:
    58
    Location:
    Johannesburg, Edenvale
    Could you target feed corals with skimmate?
     
  8. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    8 May 2007
    Posts:
    24,229
    Likes Received:
    127
    Location:
    Point Waterfront Durban
    Protein dude, good for body building. Ask Andreas. :p
     
  9. Monti

    Monti

    Joined:
    22 Sep 2008
    Posts:
    811
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Durban
    How salty is skimmate though? Ive never tasted it, so dont know, but reckon it must be fairly salty... dunno how good that is for plants.
     
  10. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

    Joined:
    3 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    JHB
    they say 70 trace elements but we can't test for them so how do they??

    who would like to try this test some time? on a small scale? we setup a recycle system?

    Just an idea
     
  11. inflames

    inflames

    Joined:
    29 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    923
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Randparkridge (Johannesburg)

    NO!!!!!:lol:
     
  12. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

    Joined:
    3 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    JHB

    :razz::razz: :8:
     
  13. Jaco Schoeman

    Jaco Schoeman MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    2,241
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB

    I'll do it on my NPS. Will take a standard 4ft tank, add a 15cm DSB, add a few chunks of LR and many macro algae...

    The water volume should then be around 50litres that I can "harvest"

    What I would then do is just to add Tropic Marin Trace Elements, and see weather that works out cheaper than just throwing water down the drain and refill with newly mixed sw.

    I will also TRY and test for most elements I can... ;)
     
  14. maj

    maj

    Joined:
    13 Oct 2009
    Posts:
    2,054
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Cape Town
    be the test pilot and taste it for us:p
     
  15. vatso

    vatso Thread Starter

    Joined:
    3 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    JHB
    That will be great Jaco - let us know how it goes.

    I look at the sea & it's been around for millions of years by now all trace elements should have been used up - how does it get replaced?

    if we can get the water back to 80% of it's use then I think we are winning already!

    NO BATHING & ALL THAT OTHER STUFF U do in the sea does not help!!!
     
  16. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    11 May 2008
    Posts:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    JHB
    The trace elements are supplied continiously though leaching and erosion of the trace elements in the earths crust, through prodominantly rivers, although the effect of wind and other erosion should not be underestimated.

    I think we should compare our little glass boxes to the ocean at our peril.....

    look at the biomass we squeeze into our glass boxes and compare that to the ocean, look at the fish load, the temp differences etc etc etc .... the ocean is in a continious state of flux in all its paramaters and viewed over the milennia it is by no means stable.....

    what we think of as "stable" parameters in our hobby ONLY refer to the current parameters experiences in reef environments, and are only STABLE to the extent that the ocean is so large that changes take milennia to manifest themselves.... the corals and fish we know to live in the ocean are able to survive through a complex process of evolution and gradual adjustment to the water parameter changes ... While some of the creatures are very adaptable (leading may hobbiests to think they are doing well) it is the speed at which the parameters change more than the change itself that kills our tanks....

    So in conclusion..... as stated already this will only have a chance of working IF you add trace elements eg through TM trace elements and of course Ca etc Although i would add these only just before using the water as a WC, some Macro Algae is know to be an excellent way of stripping out Trace elements as well as nutrients
     
  17. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    8,384
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    Joe's Mountain
    I am sure that if recycling used aquarium water could be done there would be many DIY's on the subject on the net. Also i am sure the Sprungs, Holmes-Farleys, Calfos and co would have advocated same.

    I will again go through the "content" of aquarium water and the reason it is changed.

    In our aquariums various biological processes take place and there is a build up of ORGANIC substances. ORGANIC in that they contain carbon. We know this as "dissolved organic carbon" (DOC). When DOC contains nitrogen, bacteria mineralised it producing ammonia and then ultimately nitrate. Now a lot of the DOC is not mineralised and tends to build up in an aquarium. A similar thing happens with the phosphate cycle. The point that we must clearly understand is that this only happens in an aquarium due to the confined space/volume we have. It does not happen in the ocean.

    Now i repeat that many DOC's are not mineralised and build up in a aquarium. Water changes are done to, amongst others, remove this non mineralised DOC. So our changed water has a concentration of DOC that is not mineralised. To name a few hydrocarbons, carbohydrates, Proteins, vitamins, fats etc. It is also depleted in trace elements and possibly Ca and ALK. It also has plankton, bacteria (some heterotrophic) Diatoms etc etc . Our old changed water is now an unbalanced form from what it was originally and will continue to change, even while standing in a drum or circulating in a form of filter.

    So the challenge now is to.
    1) make sure all the un-mineralised DOC is removed.
    2) Trace elements are replaced.
    3) Ca and alk are present.
    4) All bacteria and the die off is removed
    5) Plankton and Diatoms removed.

    I am sure there are 10X more issues to consider...

    One only has to look at the list of test kits one would need to realise recycling will be a PITA.


    Maybe have a chat to the evaporated salt guys. They must have a method of testing for these things.
     
    Last edited: 24 Feb 2010
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    There are big laboratories with CSI Miami like setups that can measure all the different elements in the salt. So they know what they got, and they can replace whatever elements that were depleted with exactly the right doses.

    Do you have a CSI laboratory in your garage?
     
  19. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    29 May 2007
    Posts:
    17,868
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Hi Poiromaniax - MOST (sea / marine based) plant fertilizers are made from something that's similar to skimmate.

    I have used skimmate 100% successfully in my garden - I am just extremely wary of the salt/salinity in the skimmate - so, I dilute it with fresh water - just to be 100% sure I don't kill my plants!

    BUT, I do indeed believe that skimmate is good for plants!
     
  20. Jaak

    Jaak

    Joined:
    2 Jun 2008
    Posts:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Cape Town
    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  21. poiromaniax

    poiromaniax MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    12 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Norwood, JHB
    Im definately gonna give it a try. Ill plant some flowers using watered down skim-mate and see what happens :thumbup:

    thanks jacques
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Water recycle Forum Date
Ways to reduce Water Temperature General Discussions and Advice Thursday at 13:24
TDS Reading of RO Water Water Parameters and Additives 17 Nov 2016
Starting a new tank - water question Beginner Discussions 12 Nov 2016
Water shortages/restrictions General Discussions and Advice 9 Nov 2016
Cloudy water Water Parameters and Additives 7 Nov 2016
Fresh Sea water / Bangkok contactes Advanced Topics 6 Nov 2016
Water storage container General Discussions and Advice 23 Oct 2016