Advanced Topic Water Changes vs Stability

Discussion in 'Advanced Topics' started by dallasg, 16 Mar 2015.

  1. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    well as everyone knows i am not a great fan of weekly/monthly water changes, i do see value in doing them every 3-4 months as certain elements need to be removed, especially if using DIY chemicals etc.

    but seeing a post on MASA where a guy does daily, and even those that do big weekly water changes, doesnt this fly in the face of stability? 20% water change means a 20% swing in params?

    or am i missing something?
     
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  3. Monti

    Monti

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    I tend to agree with your sentiments, but a 20% water change doesnt necessarily mean a 20% swing in parameters. Eg say your alk in your tank is 7 and the alk in the fresh water is 7.5. A 20% water change would raise your alk by what- 0.1 or so?
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2015
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  4. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    I read something a few years ago where someone scientifically measured or calculated the effects of water changes on parameters like Nitrate and Phosphate, the changes in the parameters were so minimal that you would have had to do upwards of 50% water changes to have any noticeably large effects on parameters.
     
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  5. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @Monti it works both ways, the swing is minimal i think in the major params, and i am all for water changes to dilute trace elements etc but other than that, is there a benefit? just good marketing i think
    @viper357 yes for every 10ppm of nitrate a 10% WC will remove 1ppm which doesnt do much
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  6. zippy

    zippy

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    are we talking parameters in terms of phosphate and nitrate levels or calcium, alk and magnesium levels?
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    all, as everything gets affected
     
  8. birkettN

    birkettN Nathan

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    Lol tagging for this :D

    Btw I am a 20% every two weeks fan but have seen amazing tanks that haven't seen a water change in years, yet to try this myself but am building a bigger tank this year and might go this route
     
  9. sanjayMoti

    sanjayMoti

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    High guys i completely agree about your discussion. Im new to this game. At first when i started i did upto 30 % percent water changes. And all i can say my tank was not doing well , plus the fish was more stressed. It Gone like 3 months now i havn't touch the tank everything seems so good.
     
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    the reasons i see water changes as a waste of money are
    nutrient export

    in larger tanks 150L maintenance of ALK, Ca etc

    for nanos, pics etc its perfect all round solution
     
  11. TaahirS

    TaahirS MASA Contributor

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    Yep, for my rank no water changes would mean I would have to make diy chemicals or dose. I'd much rather do the water change to keep my levels correct.
     
  12. tekkengal

    tekkengal Moderator

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    I haven't seen anyone or know of anyone that does daily water changes. I have however heard of people wanting to do so though :p

    I am curious in the long term effects on the tank going this method as I would also have perceived it to cause some measure of instability especially if you are chasing parameters like high alk.

    Also, with regards to the minuscule reduction in nutrient level that is initially measured with daily water changes, would it become more apparent the longer you perform daily water changes (this is also assuming that the other organic and mechanical methods of filtration still work effectively over this period)? i.e. over the span of the year would you see the cumulative effect or would it still be the minuscule drop initially recorded?

    I know that the "no water change" method works (have also run my one tank on this basis for a long time successfully) but I would also like to know if the converse is a more "natural" option (from the point that the ocean is so massive that the water around the coral would in some way always be "new water). Would love to experiment with this however I am just on the wee bit side of lazy to do so :p
     
  13. ascheff

    ascheff

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    I do quite a bit of dosing, so I sort of see water changes as counter productive. Any water change bigger than 5% also throws my parameters (alk, ca, mg) out of whack, and doing 5% or less is pointless. I do however dose trace elements too.

    I keep a container of salt water made to top up when I've drip acclimated something, or in case of any emergency.

    My tank is newish, and I might still learn the error of my ways, but so far it's been working for me.

    Oh, and my fish bioload is pretty small, but I feed a lot.
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2015
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  14. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i think you confused with what i am asking, a WC to control params is a waste if your percentage is low compared to the replacement value needed
     
  15. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    the only time outside of a bi-annual water change, i do water changes

    and when i clean my sump but that is to replace water not correct or change anything, and its like 15L
     
  16. ccwilke

    ccwilke Majestic Pets Solutions Sponsor

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    Dallas I have always been doing water changes. On my new system I am dosing KH,Ca for the past 6 months without any water change and all looking good. With both ways all is looking good except water changes is more work. LOL
     
  17. ascheff

    ascheff

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    How big is your bi-annual change? And do you do it like clockwork, or only when / if you get cues from your tank?
     
  18. Lord_Blackadder

    Lord_Blackadder

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    I do 20% changes every 2-3 months. Seems to work well.
     
  19. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Maybe 30-50% when I remember but it's mostly when I clean sump etc, my new tank I plan to document etc in detail
     
  20. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I slowed down on my water changes.

    And my ozone controller seems faulty so I switched that off about 2 months ago.

    Last weekend, I was actually amazed on how yellow my old tank water was when I dumped that into an empty white old salt bucket.

    My softies do not mind the extra nutrients.
     
  21. Henkie

    Henkie

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    One real advantage of water changes for me is the fact that once a week or once every two weeks I really get hands on with the tank.

    It helps me to spot possible issues before they become a real pain to deal with
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2015
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