Urgent Help Needed!

Discussion in 'Fresh Water Tanks Discussion' started by tinusb, 14 Dec 2007.

  1. tinusb

    tinusb

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    Hi all,

    I urgently need help.... Spoke to Jacquesb about this already this morning, but he's not online...

    Following scenario ----


    New Fish Tank; 300 liters; bacteria; water conditioned. Everything went A OK for about 3 weeks. Added new fish. Fish started dying --- randomly. No specific order. I've lost:

    1x Dwarf Goerami [SPELLING!?]
    2x small angels
    1x Neon
    1x Panda Corri
    2x Kuhli Loaches
    1x Eel [can't remember which]

    NO2 is absolutely 0.0 mg/l --- according to the SERA test kit. No problem with my chlorine in the water, and I also know that the bacteria SHOULD be fine, as I've added a healthy dose of it to the new tank.

    Other problem is water temperature. Went up to 33 degrees day before yesterday! NO heater plugged in! Have a UV filter running 24/7 as well.... at the moment anyway.

    What I've noticed is the fish is fine. Appears dead the next morning [suffice to say if you can find their bodies!], and suddenly have fungis [like rotting cheese! well not the colour, but fine strands] grown on them during the night.

    Anybody with suggestions, PLEASE REPLY ASAP! I'm busy with about a 40% water change at the moment, but I think the culprit in this whole @#$@up is the temperature.....

    Tinus :(

    PS=== I know it's a marine forum, but many guys have backgrounds on freshwater tropical tanks as well --- and it's a freshwater tank I'm having problems with!
     
    Last edited: 14 Dec 2007
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  3. Mike

    Mike Retired Moderator

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    I would imagine that one of the fish came in with the desease, it is unlikely the temperature as freshwater fish are more hardy than marine, it seems likely that you will loose the lot - i hope i'm wrong but this infection seems very quick, you may be able to treat, but i think you will need to look at a restart.
     
  4. Kanga

    Kanga Retired Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Tinus thats a lot of fish for 3 weeks, what size tank?

    What " Bacteria" did you add?

    Normally healthy/unstressed fish will resist fungal spores.

    What eel, a picture will do? are you sure they are not being bullied and stressed

    Yip 33 is hot, what you can do is put plastic bottles of ice cold water half filled in the tank to float to keep the temp down.

    Best of luck
     
  5. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    !!

    Hi everybody!

    Here's a pic --- something weird going on with my butterfly fish - looks like some fungis thing growing out of it!

    Tinus

    PS. Sorry for the bad quality!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Copperband

    Copperband

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    Tinus dose with the following:

    http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/myxazin.htm

    Its good for:

    MYXAZIN - broad spectrum bactericide.

    MYXAZIN lowers the count of harmful bacteria in aquarium water, treating Fin Rot, Body Rot, Ulcers, Sores and other bacterial infections. MYXAZIN will also help to control Pop - Eye Disease, Cloudy Eyes and Mouth Fungus. MYXAZIN should be used daily until symptoms disappear (typically this would be between 3 and 5 applications). MYXAZIN can also be used to sterilise nets and live foods such as Daphnia and Tubifex. MYXAZIN is mild on fish, highly biodegradable and effective against a wide range of fish health problems.
     
  7. Kanga

    Kanga Retired Moderator MASA Contributor

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    No prob thats an upside down catfish, not aggressive.

    Do you water change and keep doing them 20 %, keep a bottle with ice water floating to cool the water to 28 or so.

    What are ypou using to get chlorine out of the water

    Do you have carbon running in your tank, if not get.

    Have you checked PH?

    What Bacteria did you use??
     
  8. Kanga

    Kanga Retired Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Medication should be a last resort, but I think Copper is right you are there
     
  9. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Without knowing more about your set-up we can only speculate...

    Your water temperature is high, but the temperature is probably not the problem - it's more likely a lack of oxygen caused by the high temperature... The capacity of water to hold dissolved oxygen decreases rapidly as the water temperature increase, and in a recently started tank with a high bio-load one could expect the O2 level to drop to a dangerously low level - perhaps not so low that the fish would suffocate, but low enough to stress them and allow secondary "attacks" by bacteria, fungi and/or other organisms to get the upper hand.

    If you don't have good water circulation I would add a second (and third, and fourth, if necessary...) air stone to increase circulation.

    The UV is adding heat to the water, and I would disconnect it (it is obviously not doing anything to help the situation at the moment...).

    A water change is good, but only if the water has been matured and/or treated for chlorine (if not, it would make matters worse).

    Fungi can be treated by giving the fish a short-term bath in potassium permanganate (aka Condy's crystals). Dissolve the crystals in the ratio of 0.5 gram in 10 litres of old, matured water, and place the fish in this for 5 to 10 minutes. Remove them immediately from this bath if they show serious signs of stress (leaning on one side, or "staggering").

    You can also treat the tank water by adding salt - 1 heaped table spoon per 10 litres of water. This is a general "tonic" for most fish, but some fish and plants are affected negatively.

    Give us some more info on your set-up, and let's see if anyone can help further...

    Hennie
     
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  10. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    Hey all!

    Yes it is a newly setup tank, but I have been with tropical fish now for 5 years. It looks as if it's some kind of fungus infection - I've changed about 40% of the water, and treated it with some antichlorine [pond strength - used it for about 2 months in my old tank, without any problems] --- antichlorine has been diluted as necessary.

    I'm a bit cautious on using salt, as I read that the corri's don't like salt in the water.

    I've added a 30cm air bar now, and it's bubbling away like crazy. I have an external canister filter [took out the carbon, as I've added general tonic now!] doing about 1400 litres/hr and a powerhead doing about 400 litres/hr connected to the undergravel filter.

    All symptoms seems more-and-more asif it's fungus - so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

    Will keep you guys posted!

    Tinus

    PS. I have an idea that the lack in O2 due to high temperature might be a contributing factor...
     
  11. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    So:
    • what species of fish do you have in the tank (and how many of each...)?
    • what plants (if any), and how many of them?
    • how long has the tank been set up, and how long have you had the fish in it?
    • apart from the nitrite test, what other parameters do you test for, and what are the results?
    • what "decorations" do you have in the tank - any new ones that you did not have in your previous (successful) tank?
    Might also be poisoning

    Hennie
     
  12. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    Hi All

    1:

    Neon Tetras (3x)
    Angels (2x)
    White Clouds (15x)
    Golden Ramirezzi (3x)
    Highfin Pleco (1x)
    Butterfly Fish (2x)
    Loaches (5x)
    Panda Cori (2x)
    Emerald Cori (3x)

    2:

    Elodea (3x)
    And that's about the only one I know the name of! The others include grass, some fern (java fern or something like that); some plant with fine strands that's in the form of a ball; some very hardy grass

    3:
    Tank's been up for probably 4 - 5 weeks now. Fish in the same time --- used some of the old tank's water when moving the fish

    4:
    Didn't test any other stuff - only have hardness and pH --- and it can't be those... tho I'll test now and give the results:

    gH-> 50°dGH
    kH-> 40°dKH
    pH-> 8.0


    5. No new decorations.

    Hope this gives a bit more insight!

    Tinus
     
  13. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    bacteria in tank have not had time to get to decent level before adding so many fish. in essence fish crapping themselves to death. add floating plants, to help get rid of bi products, reduce feedingto small feed once every 2 days for a while, by continually changing water u are reducing bacteria.in freshwater , your fish will continue dying until bacteria level is correct. ps continual watrchanges will send fish into stress, the greatest killer of freshwater fish. ps have had tropicals for 28 years before moving onto marines
     
  14. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    ps check your ammonia level, and get rid of uv, it is slowing down bacteria.growth. 3 weeks may be about how long it will take ammonia to get to nasty levels if not enough bacteria present
     
  15. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator

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    Me think you have too many fish for a tank that is only 4 - 5 weeks old, take it slow.

    Salt is fine with corri's, so try what Reef Maniac said. You should always add a bit of salt for the water change.
     
  16. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    OK, that's more helpful :)

    Fresh water tanks also go through a "cycle" (same as marines...) where first there is an increase of ammonium, then nitrites and lastly nitrates. Adding all these fish (and those that have died?) from day one would have caused quite a high ammonium spike. Ammonium (and nitrite) is generally not as poisonous in fresh water tanks as it is in a marine system, because the pH of fresh water is normally close to neutral (pH = 7.0), or even slightly acidic. In your case, however, the high pH of 8.0 is approaching the value of sea water, and the ammonium and nitrite would be just as harmful as in a marine tank.

    You have stated that your current nitrite reading is positively zero. Have you been monitoring this parameter from the start, and have you done any ammonium tests during this period?

    I would wager a guess that your problems were caused by an ammonium and/or nitrite spike about 2-4 weeks after starting the tank, and that the current fungal infection is a direct result of the immune systems of your fish being compromised by this spike (ammonium "burns" the gills, and lowers the ability of the fish to absorb oxygen from the water - this, coupled with the low dissolver oxygen in your very hot water would be enough to cause serious harm to your poor fish).

    That is good. I would suggest that you also lower the pH slightly, lower the water temperature to around 25 °C, feed *very* sparingly for the next week or two, and do the short-term potassium permanganate treatment on all the affected fish.

    Good luck
    Hennie
     
  17. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    Hi all,

    I've added a general tonic yesterday to the water [green in colour from Tetra], and had absolutely no losses again. All the fish are much more alive than anything else.

    Also - the tank was not started completely from scratch, so the possibility of an ammonia spike is not very likely, imo. I've used about 95% of the gravel already seeded with bacteria, and my cannister filter was also running prior in another tank. However, it seems like it might have come from the pet store - as about 75% of those fish died off first.

    Anyway, I'm off to Victoria Falls again [Oh the joy of being a bus driver!] but will be back about 7-ish - will post more info.

    Tinus
     
  18. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    PS. Fish wasn't air hungry - so I don't know whether it was an O2 shortage or what! :whistling:
     
  19. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Do you mean "bacteria in a bottle" such as Cycle? These are dormant (inactivated...) bacteria, much like a human vaccine - it still needs a few weeks to "activate" and multiply to sufficient numbers to be able to handle a high bio-load. Using "old" gravel and a seeded cannister filter would of course help, but whatever the level of filtration/maturation, a bio-load which is heavier than the filtration capability at that point in time WILL result in an ammonium spike - and I'm afraid that your tank is/was stocked very heavily.

    So, did you add the fish that died more recently? If so, this could again have caused a spike, thus triggering the event.

    Hennie
     
  20. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    Well, dunno what happened, but everything is now hunky dory :) Just got back, and everything's alive and kicking! :)

    Will keep you guys posted anyway...

    Hennie, I basically took a new tank, used old gravel, 50% old water, and added more bacteria to that - so yes, cycle in a bottle - so yes there would have been a spike, but not sufficient to cause this... I think the problem was at the petstore --- saw 2 tanks looking not that good - but didn't buy from the tank.

    Cheers
    Tinus
     
  21. tinusb

    tinusb Thread Starter

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    Hey all

    Another observation --- water is smelling EXTREMELY fishy :? --- anybody?

    Tinus
     
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