Uhm - THAT much salt, really?

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by cknipe, 4 Dec 2013.

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  1. cknipe

    cknipe

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    Hi,

    I have a 420Ltr that I am currently busy setting up. The tank has been filled yesterday with tap water, and treated with Seachem Prime & Stability. After being happy that there's no leaks, tempratures are stable, and overflows working (i.e. I'm happy), I started to add salt.

    I purchased Aqua Medic Reef Salt (25KG drum), and they claim that the 25KG of salt is enough to treat up to 700Ltr of water. Great stuff, I'll have some spare to use later on when doing topups, or for whatever purpose.

    I started adding salt, testing (brand new Reeftek refractometer), adding more salt, etc (rinse / repeat). Low and behold, I have now added all 25KG of salt, and my salinity is STILL only at 1.022

    Surely, this can't be right? The water is at 26 degrees, I haven't tested any other parameters at this point in time yet.
     
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  3. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    1. Never use tap water, use RO water only
    2. Did you calibrated the refractometer?
    3. Top up is done with RO water when water evaporates...
     
  4. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Just read up on this now, seems the refractometer isn't calibrated. Thanks reeftek for including instructions with your packaging, and the LPS for telling me :(

    Will pop off to a LPS tomorrow with my refractometer and calibrate it. I suspect my salinity will be off the scale once the refractometer is calibrated correctly.
     
  5. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    That is a slightly exaggerated claim. Bucket prob didnt mention what the salinity is of those 700ltrs.

    I dont think your salinity will be off the scale.
     
  6. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    Its easy to calibrate why go to the LFS if you can do it yourself...
    http://ucanr.org/sites/viticulture-fresno/files/115503.pdf
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2013
  7. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    I don't have RO / Distilled water.

    I did calibrate it quickly with tap water (granted, it's not 100% accurate, but CPT water is generally good quality) and my marine tank is sitting at over 1.040 - but thankfully not off the scale. I'll see about getting some distilled water from the pharmacy, or alternatively just go to a LPS and calibrate it there.

    I always wondered what the little screw driver was for that they give with the kit. Would it *really* kill Reeftek to put a small piece of paper with instructions in their kit to help out noobs like myself :(

    Clearly found the problem. Will get it sorted, thanks guys!
     
  8. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    You are suppose to get some calibration fluid with it...
     
  9. Express Reef

    Express Reef

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    Look for something like this : marked with red arrow

    imagesCAGNZPZ6.jpg
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2013
  10. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Look under the foam packaging for instructions. :)
     
  11. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Didn't get any.

    I only received a box, and in the box was the blue carry bag, with the refractometer, screw driver, and the dropper in it. No water, no foam, no instructions. Just the blue carry bag loose inside the small cardboard box.

    Is this how Reeftek sells their refractometers, or should I be going to the LPS that sold me the unit and ask for a complete package?

    I must say, this is now putting a dent in my confidence in my *faviourite* LPS. Perhaps I just shouldn't trust them on the marine side, but on the tropical side they have never, ever, done anything that impacts me or them negatively...
     
  12. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Best to ask @AD Scott. I am sure he will help.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  13. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    So recalibrated now with distilled water, and it's pretty much dead on par with what it was when I calibrated with my tap water.

    My salinity is at 1.044 - at least diluting the salt is as easy as adding more water...
     
  14. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    sorry to be blunt......
    but the refractometer not having instructions or your lfs not guiding you is the least of your worries.
    prepare yourself for alot of po4 remover, carbon, elbow grease, pruning etc etc
    whoever told you to fill up with tap water.........go smack him or her over the head..
    cause they just cost you as much as buying a top of the range r.o.unit.

    not that im trying my luck here....but just trying to help......get hold of me and ill sort you out with a xmas r.o.deal

    if it was me and im sure most would agree......dump the water and salt you just used (by this i mean store it and use it in a quaranteen system or something later on)....
    cut your losses and start of properly
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2013
  15. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Let's not instill fear in a newcomer in the hope of making a sale.

    Yes, starting a tank with tap water isn't ideal, but it really isn't the the end of the world. There a a lot of members on this forum who have at times been forced to use tap water and their tanks are perfectly fine. We've all made mistakes which can be rectified. No livestock is currently at risk so there is no need for panic.

    And if water isn't good enough for a tank, then it's definitely not good enogh for a quarantine tank.
     
  16. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Sorry to be blunt.....

    Coming from a sponcer, who has a commercial interest, I'm sure you will absolutely make me a deal yes. Just like the guys NAGGING me to sell me live rock at 'cost price' - so he doesn't make money, but helps me, a person who he doesn't even know? I've been keeping fish for close to 20 years, and whilst I know that fresh and marine is nothing alike, I learn on my own account, at my own cost. When I want advice, I'll ask for it, when I battle, I will ask for help. There is very few things that p!sses me off as much as someone trying to push me in a corner to 'make a quick buck'.

    Don't dictate to me what I must, and must not do - you don't have any clue as to the quality of my water to begin with ;) I've had 120 Ltr of tap water treated with Prime and Stability and Salt in a tank for close to a month before I even baught my 420ltr, and sorry to dissapoint you but NH3, NH4, NO2, and PO4 was a stunning 0...

    Anyways, problem identified, and resolved. I'm not about to get into a 'mine's bigger than your's psing contest with you. I read, I research, and I interperit. From that I do and if I do wrong, I learn from it and move on... Absolutely no one to blame but myself - just the way I like it. I can guarantee you that you selling me a RO unit not making absolutely pure RO water - you most certainly won't accept any blame for it, will you :whistling:

    Anyways, let's leave this here and move on. As 459b stated, it's most certainly not the end of the world and untill such time that I actually pick up things in my water that shouldn't be there, I don't see the problem to begin with....

    There's plenty of ways to skin a cat - they may not all be the quickest or most cost effective, but they all get the job done at the end of the day.
     
  17. Bendor

    Bendor

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    Get the RO/DI unit and do a weekly big water change. Easier on the pocket, your back and time than a full dump and remix. You may be right about Cape Town water quality but I would check the phosphate of your newly mixed tank. David is right, many people have started on tap water before but it has caused lots of headaches as well. If tap water was good enough people would be using it for top ups or water changes never mind a 100% tank fill.

    Calculate the cost of another bucket of salt, an RO/DI machine and consider dumping the first mix if you can. A phosphate reactor and media will rush you much more than the first bucket of saltmix.

    Either way, all the best and keep us posted.
     
  18. Bendor

    Bendor

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    It's unlikely that you will always get the specific advice for the specific question your asking on open forum. People identify issues during their discussion with each other and tend to comment on all of it and not just the aspect you want to hear. I've experienced the same and have been similarly unhappy with the "unwanted" advice.

    Also a "quick buck" is quite a negative comment. I know Marco is a sponsor and sells aquarium equipment but I also know he has saved me a lot of money on side by side price comparisons in the past with really top quality equipment and excellent service. I think his suggestion was a good one to try and avoid problems rather than manage them when/if they occur later.
     
  19. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    Im starting to get abit annoyed with the kind of feedback alot of us get from advise givin.
    granted you state you never asked for advise.....but hay.....there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way.
    i merely try and help you and guide you on the right path.....while you still can , but in turn recieve a cheaky reply and accusations......
    Over a decade of forums generally leads us to be blunt and straight to the point.
    by the way......just last weekend we donated over R3000 worth of kit for a kzn marine meet and then i must here from you that by offering some advise and service to you , that im trying to make a quick buck????.......
    I laugh at the quick buck comment because the profit of the sale of 1 tiny marine ro unit barely pays for the coffee i drink in a day. Why have sponsers then if you not gonna take there advise and generous offers.
    Anyway dont take my advise...Ill drink my coffee , look at my spotless aquariums that i have managed to keep with the time , knowledge , and effort gained in 13 years in the trade, forums, conferences etc etc aswell as advise gained from more knowledgeable people than my self in the field over the years......while you scrub algae in a few weeks.

    Oh and by the way. A qt tank with copper or medication, no substrate or rock will do pretty good with the water mentioned. Oh and since we talking water which i seem to know nothing about. Maybe call your local water board and ask for a recent analysis and
    Then come tell me its perfectly fine to use that water with prime in a reef tank.By the way prime is an amazing product with great properties. And yes your fish wont die.... But send us some pics and 4 to 6 weeks when the diatoms kick in .........and dont seem to kick out.

    Do me a favour go buy yourself a ro unit. Not from me cause after that comment my offer no longer stands. Give someone else that "quick buck"

    By the way.... I happen to supply 75 percent of water companies in the cape and have various bottling lines installed in cape-town to. I also have water analysis data from a close as 2 weeks back for your area.(so im pretty sure i know what your incomming water quality is like) But dont listen to me man. Also i dont know why im telling you this cause you dont seem to want to listen...... But to have all those 0 tests. 4 weeks in...... You either have nothing in your tank......or id buy some new test kits. And if they digital..... Try calaborating them!
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2013
  20. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    has anyone asked chris what the intention of his system is? perhaps its FOWLR? and while i do not advocate bad practices everybody needs to find their feet and knock their head somewhere no matter how we try to help them...

    yes so he puts RO in with a good salt but overfeeds increasing no3 and po4 anyway.. its a learning curve we need to work with him through..
    @cknipe we are here to assist, perhaps give us more info on your intended system before we jump the gun....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  21. TheWaterboy

    TheWaterboy Sponsor

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    @ leslie......
    i hear you man......but did you not read his post......he does not want assistance or advise.
    he says there are many ways to skin a cat.......
    i would have to disagree.....there is right way to do things and a wrong way........he can choose either
    but when someone accuses us of "commercial intrest ....and making a quick buck"
    my blood begins to boil.
    are we in agreement that we taking animals out there enviroment and housing them in glass boxes for our pleasure.......i hope so.......
    but all of us have a responsibility to do so subsatainably.....
    starting off on the wrong foot is gonna land up with chris either tossing rock and buying more, or tossing livestock and buying more etc etc
    or getting so frustrated cause he cant keep the algae under control that he will come here and start blaming his lfs for supplying po4 rich rock or something and having to fork out more money and resources to get it right.
    hardly the right way to do things.
    but you know what.........yeah.......i hate seeing people battle in the hobby .......but if chris wants to skin the cat his way.....then let him
    not wasting anymore time on this thread trying to assist folk only to be insulted.
    leslie, you know me.....i dont hang around and beat round the bush....i call a spade a spade.......
    if a guy posts pics of his tank loaded with cyno.....i wont sit and post "tank is looking awesome, well done"
    ill send the guy a pm and guide him to guys in his area who may be able to assist him rectify the problem.
    i assume that is our role here as senior members on forums?
    this thread has turned upside down due to the response givin by this dude......but it sort of gives you an idea on how to help him......he does not want to be helped
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2013
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