thoughts on montmorrillonite clay

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by 4age, 24 Feb 2014.

  1. 4age

    4age

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    Hi Guys

    I was at a lfs on Friday and was looking at ATI easy vital...then I came across a local product used in treating ponds..montmorrillonite clay. I had an idea ( please note this is just an idea and a discussion, do not try this) but can montmorrillonite clay be used to bind nutrients and then be skimmed out of a tank?

    I have read a few threads online, but no one has confirmed the use of it and only refer to it being used in ponds to clear water. seems similar to the concept used by the ATI Easy Vital if you ask me...
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    interesting, the only issue i can see, my assumption, is that the salt water might add an unexpected reaction.

    montmorrillonite clay is in kitty litter too?
     
  4. 4age

    4age Thread Starter

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    yep. read that its used in kitty litter too. apparently it has very good binding ability
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i know zeolites are also used for kitty litter....
    interesting subject, will read up more on it
     
  6. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Zeolites....affinity...possibly Kiss your Calcium levels goodbye...
     
  7. 4age

    4age Thread Starter

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    im always thinking out the box..hence the interesting subject;)

    just worried about any possible "Fillers" added to the product. I am in no way promoting a product, but saw the product, "Ecoclear300" which sparked the interest. never used it but im interested in experimenting...only problem is im VERY hesitant to experiment on my tank..acroporas are sensitive creatures

     
  8. 4age

    4age Thread Starter

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    aaah...so that's the possible catch,,it could make my calcium levels in its moer in
     
  9. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    There are 100's of naturally occurring and man made zeolites, all with different affinities. Very pressed for time today....

    What you are after is.... clinoptilolite, IIRC, this one does not suck up Ca like most of the FW ones do.....?

    Did a quick google hunt and found something interesting.... Don't try thyis at home.... I am tempted to do a test...

    http://www.therealthing.co.za/the-real-thing-zeolite-powder.html
     
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    ok yo have me interested, but if zeolites contain K, then why when using them, aka Zeovit, you have to dose K as it gets sapped? doest the addition of zeolites increase the K uptake in corals?
     
  11. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Nooooo.

    Somewhat relevant....

    http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283735

    There was a study done where the stones were analyzed after 5 days, then again after 47 days of use in a tank. I have pasted the translated study below. The numbers under each element are the concentrations after 5 days, then after 47:




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    Zeovit (from Korallenzucht , Coburg )
    Investigation report by Dipl. -Ing. ( FH) Lars Sebralla
    www.lars - sebralla.de
    Problem:
    In salt-water aquariums various substrates for filtering and removal of phosphate can be used. A filter material is Zeovit the company Korallenzucht from Coburg . It should also reduce the phosphate content in the water. But from what is Zeovit and how much phosphate is adsorbed by the application?


    Zeovit after use (from Korallenzucht , Coburg )
    Scale 1 mm





    Sample preparation:
    The sample was used and used by Robert Baur according to the manufacturer .
    After 5 and after 47 days , a sample ( about 100 g ) was removed . The respective sample was rinsed five times with deionized water, dried at 110 ° C and ****genized.
    The sample material was provided by Robert Baur free of charge.


    Experimental parameters ( personal communication from Robert ) :


    Aquarium volume 988 liters
    Amount of sample 2 liters Zeovit
    Filter EHEIM external filter
    Flow rate 950 l / h
    Period of use 12.01. - 28.02.02
    Water change 45 liters every 7 days ( as before )
    PO43 - Start 0.35 mg / L
    PO43 - end 0.046 mg / L (Merck Aquaquant )
    Phosphate no
    Kalkwasser no
    Trace elements no , no iodine. In part, trace elements and amino acids are in the bottle Food of the manufacturer
    Activated carbon 800 gr of the company GroTech in the first 4 weeks
    The first 14 days of addition of bacteria and food , according to the manufacturer's instructions directly into the aquarium. After 14 days, only the Zeovit was contacted completely changed ( without feeding ) and after the study.


    Notes to trial ( personal communication from Robert ) :
    Growth is very good, colors to not have a great improvement . But with the colors we have in itself not a problem.
    Where you really have to say that some animals were already brown before 0.37 mg / L phosphate noticeably relax and show growth tips.

    The importance of using good filter carbon. In 1000 liters 700 -1000 g for 4 weeks.

    Nitrate is actually also fallen in 6 weeks , initially 37 mg / L after 6 weeks then 0 mg / L. But you can not leave , because in exchange of the zeolite , the value again went upstairs.


    Result:
    1 kg Zeovit contains in mg :


    element
    icon
    after
    5 days
    After 47
    meet
    sodium
    well
    12,600
    14,800
    magnesium
    mg
    654
    651
    aluminum
    al
    39,800
    39,200
    silica
    SiO2
    438 200
    444 264
    phosphate
    PO43 -
    *
    *
    sulfur
    S
    348
    234
    chlorine
    Cl
    5,760
    7,400
    potassium
    K
    28,600
    29,800
    calcium
    Ca
    5,740
    2,640
    titanium
    Ti
    495
    381
    vanadium
    V
    *
    *
    chrome
    Cr
    *
    *
    manganese
    Mn
    170
    *
    iron
    Fe
    12,300
    7,930

    Conclusion:
    Zeovit consists for the most part ( besides oxygen ) of aluminum , silicon and potassium. Both after 5 days and after 47 days of usage duration no adsorbed phosphate could be detected on the Zeovit . The phosphate content fell in the water yet of 0.35 mg / L to 0.046 mg / L ( personal communication from Robert ) . Water samples for screening analyzes were not available.
    A significant depletion (Simplified Entry in water) in Zeovit was in iron ( 4.400 mg / kg ) and calcium found ( about 3,100 mg / kg).
    The high sodium and chloride content despite five times rinsing with deionized water is an indication of a large surface area inside.

    Outlook:
    Robert will collect bacterial sludge and Abschäumerkonzentrat and these samples are then assayed for phosphate. These samples are from since June 2002.


    Comment by Thomas Pohl ( coral breeding , Coburg ) :
    The Zeovit method is not a method for snap shots, all the nutrient status is degraded , including phosphate and nitrate. This can take several months depending on the strain and supplementation of the water. How indeed can be seen from the analysis , no nitrate and phosphate is bound in Zeovit , this is nothing new and known , but broken down by biological means , consumed and skimmed off , so this also works very slowly and takes the necessary patience , the delivery of iron I do not see as a problem, because in our plant iron is already for a long time can not be measured , and this is even supplied one , iron available in the form of , among other things available in ZEOfood . The Calziumaustrag will not be a problem , because with recommended small water changes this minimum discharge can be compensated without further ado .
    Coburg 03.06.2002
     
  12. birkettN

    birkettN Nathan

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    Apparently not out the kitty box ;)

    Interesting
     
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