The phyto thread

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by lappiesreef, 22 May 2008.

  1. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef

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    :p Can't help it...

    Yeah a continues phytoculture is definately possible I think. It will then act as a filter as well as feeder.

    The trick is to get the input and output ratios right...

    A peristaltic pump would have been ideal, but they so expensive. I'm trying to twist my bosses arm for one of our HPLC pumps that have been written off already. They can be set down to 0.1ml/min and have various in takes. Would be idea.

    Don;t you guys experiment with continues reactors? I saw very interesting research done on continues bacterial cultures from sea sediments and lagoon systems... Thy get their continues cultures going sommer in Scott bottles...
     
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  3. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    a peristaltic pump would be great, they use them at the aquarium to feed the fish. I never knew HPLC pumps could run so slowly.
    what size cutlure are you planning on?
     
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  4. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    MMM, not to sure yet. But it will have to be a good size to be sustainable. A too small vessel will be prone to crashes...

    Ideal would be a hollow cylinder. You then have the light through the hollow bit in the middlen fresh tank water drip into the top and cultre drip out the bottom. Some aeration will also be a must. Now where to find something like that...
    I actually saw one you could buy for phytoculture from an American company just now. It actually comes with a peristaltic pump... Lost the link now. :(
     
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  5. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    you get colums like that for chromotography. Its a standard acrylic column with a thin glass centre column inside. No idea what its for, but they run at high pressure and tend to crack. I got an old one that i converted into a protein skimmer. Ask your boss really nicely....
     
  6. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    they grow alot of diatoms at the aquarium. All they do is use 25l containers with air bubbling in. They have them standing on a shelf with the lights mounted to the wall next to them. With the heavy aeration it mixes it sufficiently enough to not need lights on all sides of the container.
     
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  7. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    Don't you have more of those lying around? :whistling:
    Our rep comes to CT every now and then... :p

    I also though of the bottles with a light behind. The alga doesn't need that much any way..

    One idea I was toying with is having a thick pipe running on the inside of the lid around the tank. My tank ahs a little shelf there and the lights are right next to it.
    Bit to do that practically seems a bit impossible. For my technical skills anyway.
     
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  8. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    ill have a look around.

    a pipe in your tank could work, only problem might be aerating a horizontal tube.
    If lighting is a problem, couldnt you just grow the cutlure outside, or on a window somewhere?
     
  9. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    I think the phyto cultures on windows work well, but I want it inline with the tank as continues supply...

    Yeah the horizontal aeration will be a problem. I wonder is aeration is needed if the culture was circulted through the pyp...?

    But a vat culture with regulated in and out by the sump would be best in my mind. You could have water after biological media which should be full of nitrate flow into the reactor and then the out drip on the return pump to feed the tank...
     
  10. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    if you using water from your tank then aeration wouldnt be needed, as long as the turn over rate in the culture is high.
    i agree, in the sump would be best and culture would make a great filter.

    could you not use a presssure regualtor to control the flow?
     
  11. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    That is a real possibility...Wonder how far down you can let the flow go.

    Perhasp something simple like a aer-lift could do the trick...

    I wonder how big a role contamination will play...?
     
  12. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    dont think contamination would be a problem. Youy growing algae in water, i doubt bacteria could grow and any algael contamination wouldnt really be an issue, you could just look at it as varying the diet. Will you be adding any supplements?
     
  13. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    C02 would be a plus, but I don;t think you really need to add anything. The nitrates will act as fertilizer any way...

    The most imporatant bit will be to get the growth rate and export to match...
     
  14. abgg118

    abgg118 MASA Contributor

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    I think you will probably get some rotifers into the greenwater culture and once they start multiplying they may wipe out the greenwater, no?
     
  15. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    That is a possibility...Perhaps running the intake water through a filter first?

    Do you ever get contamination issues in your green water?

    BTW when the time comes can I perhaps get start-up culture from you :p
     
  16. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Another question, guys:
    Ho do you control the amount of phyto-cells that get's returned back to the tank?
    Also - you would want the outlet of the phyto-reactor to go back directly to the display tank, and not the to sump, otherwise some of the phyto-cells would / could be wasted.....
     
  17. lappiesreef

    lappiesreef Thread Starter

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    I think something like an overflow. So what you put in on the one end is forced out the other. Thats what makes it diffucult. The flow rate through the system must match the growth rate of the phyto...

    I want to have the out let on the return pump so the cells will be carried straight to my display :)

    One big advantage on such a system is that the Phyto is in Log-growth phase which is much more nutrisious than the other forms.
     
  18. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Shouldn't the Phyto be nuked via a UV filter before entering display tank. This apparently stops phyto blooms which can be quite harmful to the tank and inmates.
     
  19. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Hey Mods, this phyto discussion is interesting - why don't you move it into a new thread - it has nothing to do with being an idiot :) :)

    PS you only have two types of aquarists:

    those who have been shocked,

    and those who will still be shocked...

    Hennie
     
  20. Mike

    Mike Retired Moderator

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    Moved as requested.
     
  21. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    A continuous phyto-culture would be really nice to have, but have you guys considered the following possible problems:

    • a continuous supply of phyto would require a continuous supply of food - the same 'food' that fuells algae blooms in our tanks.
    • the continuous supply of phyto would also result in a continuous production of phyto waste products, and this will be continuously added to the tank.
    • phyto eating critters (such as rotifers) could (will, most likely...) find their way into the continuous-supply reactor, and will wipe out any phyto culture in the reactor if they do. I've experienced this on many occasions with phyto and zoo cultures growing even in separate rooms - those little rotifers can fly, I think ;)
    Any suggestions on how to solve these problems ???

    Hennie
     
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