The DSB discussion thread

Discussion in 'Biological/Natural Filtration and Deep Sand Beds' started by ziyaadb, 12 Feb 2012.

  1. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    DSB does not export nutrients?
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    Ofcourse it does. In laymans terms, nitrates get converted by anearobic bacteria to harmless nitrogen which escapes back to the atmosphere. If a DSB is working properly, you will notice little bubbles on the sand surface escaping now and then.
     
  4. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    DSB converts your nitrates, it should not take up the actual nutrients if it does it becomes a nutrient sink and after a few years starts releasing nutrients back into the water
     
  5. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    7 May 2007
    Posts:
    14,541
    Likes Received:
    285
    Location:
    Gonubie East London
    now here is a debate, off topic but a debate none the less, many people are taking DSB's out if their filtration equation for the very reason of phos etc leaching back into the system although it is difficult to pinpoint at what stage the DSB can no longer handle the various levles of nitrate effectivley and what the causes are (eg: increase in livestock loading etc) for the failire...

    DSB's will inevitably battle unless they are properly sized or very well matured with minimal to no dirt settlement..
     
    Last edited: 13 Feb 2012
  6. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    Exactly my point a skimmer takes out the actual dirt, Algaes use up the actual dirt to grow, it just settles in a dsb in 90% of all dsb's that i have seen

    @leslie hempel can you make another thread and move the conversation?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
    Tremayn likes this.
  7. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    But nitrates are nutrients and it must be taken up to be converted to nitrogen, unless you mean the particle settlement before it goes through all the cycle breakdown stages. And I agree, if not done right or maintained, it will become a huge problem - and this happens a lot as some guys think you can install a DSB and forget about it.
     
  8. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    Agreed we on the same page
     
  9. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    Hi guys, here is the DSB discussion that started in the "Rate this skimmer" thread. Feel free to post your experiences, opinions and myths in a non-violent manner :p
    I moved the posts from that thread to here.
     
  10. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    8,384
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    Joe's Mountain
    Oh!! What posts? Did i miss some fun. :p


    Dam i am slow with my posting.
     
    Last edited: 13 Feb 2012
  11. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    I see the system moved them to the top of the page, maybe @viper357 can help to make my introductory post no 1 :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,160
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    The problem with most DSB and excess settlement is incorrect flow rates.

    You should aim to have between 6 and 10 mm water head going over last divider. That means the difference between the top of the glass and the actual water level should be between 6 and 10mm.

    Old rule of 3 to 5 times your display turnover is WRONG. It can not be applied to the same displays, one on a sump that is 300mm wide (front to back) and another that is 600mm wide.
     
  13. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    I also read somewhere that for a DSB to be really effective on a tank with a decent bioload, it needs to be the same foot print as the tank. But, that does not mean if you have a pico of 7 litres that a DSB of that foot print will work, there is a minimum size, just cannot remember :whistling:
     
  14. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    118
    Location:
    A Beautiful place!
    Obviously the correct flow rates and the correct sand particles apply
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,160
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    you also need to seed your DSB. Also re-seed it 2 or 3 times a year.

    You got a closed community of organisms living in the DSB. And they are at war with each other for real estate. Some organisms get overshadowed and eventually goes extinct in your system. Effectively limiting the diversity of life forms you have. it will reach a balance point later where certain strong or domination organisms rule your world / DSB. You need to upset the balance. Introduce new traits of organisms that come in.

    Get a cupful of sand from another fellow reefer. Who's system is disease free. Swap him a cup if he wants to.
     
  16. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb Thread Starter

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    JHB-Lenzz
    SO MUCH Effort, rather grow macro algaes have a big skimmer and phos remover and it should suffice. been a loooong time since i have seen a TOTM internationally that had a dsb or s sps system with a dsb.
    too much effort esp in these days of crazy powerful skimmers
     
  17. Arries

    Arries

    Joined:
    11 Apr 2010
    Posts:
    521
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    Durbanville,Cape Town
    Tagging along....
     
  18. Tremayn

    Tremayn

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    5,226
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Lenasia
    IMO macro algae and/or an ATS is more effective, more practical (because not everyone has the space for a huge dsb) than a DSB and they also start working withing a month where as a DSB take a few months to start working. You can see the macro growing, you see the growth on an ATS so you know right away its working. I think pretty soon you wont even see DSB's anymore. Thats flinstones stuff :p haha
     
  19. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,160
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    why?
    adding a cup of sand 3 times a year? too much effort? A DSB setup with correct size return pump, and the 5 minute action of adding a cup 3 times a year is too mush effort?
    How does that relate to maintenance on NP reactor?

    My cheato ball gives me more work than the rest of my sump.

    From late 90's until a year ago when NP reactors came around, DSB did work. Suddenly they just do not export nutrients anymore. What?

    Yes agree, first question, what corals do you want to keep. Everything depends on that. Lights, powerheads, reactors, ....

    As I said previously, what does a bag of play sand cost? R40 at garden centre. Just have to wash it properly. But that is in the setup. So I will continue to advice to ALL beginners to rather use a setup with a DSB. I cannot advise to any beginner to start in this hobby flat out with full blown SPS system. Unless he got a really thick wallet and no concious of what he is killing while "learning" how to keep corals alive. Any softy dominated system, and a DSB is more than enough to provide more than enough filtration.

    Compare the cost and effort of a DSB maintenance to that of CO2 gas, multiple reactors, filling them, replacing media. And where do you have to spend more time? More effort?

    Which system is simpler, so that even I can go on leave for a week, and not worry if my neighbour actually can remember what to do. All he have is to fill the RO tank. Check if auto feeders are full. That is it. No worries.

    Which system for beginners with softies in mind will I keep on to advocate. Yea that is it - SIMPLICITY.
     
  20. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,160
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    I had an ATS, that thing is a lot of effort. Taking it out every weekend, cleaning it, replace it. Dry all the water drops on the cabinet and floor all the way out the house to keep the missus happy...

    yeah sure
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,160
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Location:
    Centurion
    I'm running an old skimmer in relation to today's bubble plate cone types.
    Running a TS2. Simple old design, out dated skimmer.

    on a 800L system. Hopelessly underpowered. According to the rules of one and a half your system volume.

    I got no hair algae in my display
    I got no cayno in my display.
    The bit I had on my sand is now sorted due to doing my water changes every week.

    So, does my DSB work?
    Does my DSB export nutrients?
     
    Last edited: 13 Feb 2012
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - discussion thread Forum Date
Zeovit Seawater Additive - Discussion Thread. Water Parameters and Additives 1 Nov 2012
POTM discussion thread Competitions 11 Oct 2012
Creation vs Evolution discussion thread The Sump 7 Mar 2012
The seahorse discussion thread Other Livestock 1 Mar 2012
Your next photographic purchase discussion thread Photography 6 Dec 2010
Dallas' 310L Corner tank - Discussion Thread uncategorised 28 Nov 2010
the bubble plate discussion thread. Protein Skimmers, Mechanical Filtration 26 Nov 2010