The cruelty of putting the blade to corals

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by irie ivan, 31 Mar 2014.

  1. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Was just wondering, is fragging cruel to corals... Corals being a general term... From putting discosoma into a blender to knocking a chisel into a chunk of porites..
    Yes I know they recover, or even spread thus way in nature, but was just wondering what reefers' thoughts are.
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I cannot just cut a softie into pieces. It takes time to grow out into a nice size pincushion or sinularia. And yes, I can frag my sinularia into 1000 little pieces selling them at R10 a frag. But It took 4 years to get to that size. Looks awesome.

    But do accept, at some point you do need to make a plan. If the Acropora is really getting to big, shading everything else. But still, I prefer a nice big coral , that lots and lots of small little sticks on white plugs.
     
  4. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    IMO more corals and fish are murdered by aquariusts than they are propagated. Would be great if the situation was the other way round.
     
  5. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    I have always thought about the cruelty in fragging stuff as well...I mean its a living creature...does it not feel pain? I always said I would definitely never have the heart to frag something like an anemone...sps though never bothered me.
     
  6. Bflynn

    Bflynn

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    It is cruel! Nature is cruel and kind. We are being kind to our oceans bye cutting up our corals and letting it spread within the hobby. Buying corals or fish and sticking them in our tanks just to find them dead an hour later is cruel.
     
  7. marine101

    marine101

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    corals are not sentient, therefore they cannot experience pain, therefore, not cruel
     
  8. shan

    shan

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    How do you know that corals are not sentient?

    Remember the earth was actually flat and was even the center of the universe at one stage in our history.

    This is a question posed by irie ivan that I do not know the answer to.
     
  9. irie ivan

    irie ivan Thread Starter MASA Contributor

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    The earth is still the centre of the universe isnt it?
    Not sure about the flat part, but i think it could be, because if it was round, wouldnt water fall off?

    Corals do regrow where fragged, but do they know they being cut? They sure know they being touched, so nerves/receptors are present... Whether these receptors transmit pain...
    Considering how long corals have been around vs humans, they have a huge evolutionary head start... Have they evolved the ability to not feel pain perhaps...
    And some call homer se pens the most evolved species... We look and often act a lot like apes still...
     
  10. HOT SAUCE

    HOT SAUCE

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    this topic is quite interesting even tho i will not stop fraging my corals. i would like to understand better how does the coral function and get to its day to day stuff... wake up, bask in the light / feed, survive another day, sleep again and so on.

    to my understanding to feel pain one needs a basic set of tools.. a brain or a ganglia (cluster of nerves found in lower life forms) nerve receptors and a way to conect those receptors to the brain / ganglia.. now after a quick Google search i've come to understand that corals have none of the above except a very few and very simple receptors that can detect touch and light. but none of them is connected to a brain or a ganglia therefore is only function is to close the polyp or open it when the coast is clear.. so in the traditional sense of the word corals do not feel pain or discomfort at least not the way we perceive those terms.

    the next thing is to understand what the term coral actually means.. according to wiki

    ''Corals are marine invertebrates in class Anthozoa of phylum Cnidaria typically living in compact colonies of many identical individual "polyps". The group includes the important reef builders that inhabit tropical oceans and secrete calcium carbonate to form a hard skeleton. A coral "head" is a colony of myriad genetically identical polyps. Each polyp is a spineless animal typically only a few millimeters in diameter and a few centimeters in length. A set of tentacles surround a central mouth opening. An exoskeleton is excreted near the base. Over many generations, the colony thus creates a large skeleton that is characteristic of the species. Individual heads grow by asexual reproduction of polyps. Corals also breed sexually by spawning: polyps of the same species release gametes simultaneously over a period of one to several nights around a full moon.''


    now the way i understand this is that although all the polyps form one big coral "tree'' they are not interconnected and do not interact with each other except for the fact they all together excrete calcium to build a bigger skeleton to accommodate more polyps. there is no central nervous system and they don't share their food. so for example if one is to frag a sps coral and one is to do it by cutting only the calcium buildup (if thats even possible with insane amounts of patience) and avoids cutting through any of the small polyps my guess is that the polyps in each of the two new frags woulnd even know what happened. as for those polyps that go directly under the knife i dont think they feel pain.. i think they just die because their mouths and feeding tentacles are damaged and can not suport them any more.
     
  11. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    For some sex/reproduction is some what violent. Some species bite the necks, backs, bodies of their partner. Others go to prison for the same act. Others consume their mate murder style. Others die on conception.
    If survival is dependent upon the "what the homo sapiens" dictates then where were we millions of years ago?
     
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