Thalion and Wee Man's thread ;) AKA Mike

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Here you go guy's
 

Kanga

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Hey why do they get their own thread killkanga
 

Mike

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Here you go guy's
Cheers big D:thumbup:


Ok, so where were we, oh yeah...i remember...... you didn't want to be a judge, and i thought staffs' in the UK were over regulated....the stage is yours, laaaaaaaaaaadiiiiiiieeeees and gennelllllllllllllmeeeeeeeeeen i give yooooooooooooo.......................Thalion Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy:thumbup:
 

Mike

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1 need to know, what is your back ground in dogs ie do you just love them as pets or are you a bit more involved?
Just an amatuer, i always get pedigree staffs, and go to staff shows but over the years i've seen a change in the staffs, they seem to be getting smaller and the dogs all seem to have been bred dangerously close to others in their blood line, i wonder if there is enough being done by the kennel club to prevent the inbreeding that is very noticable in some other breeds (Great Danes, Dobermans and German Shepherds all now suffer hip displacia for example)
 

Shaun

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Just remember we have to inbreed to keep to a line. You should only outcross if you what something another line has eg level top line. The people the just breed dog (any staffy to any staffy) will not have predictible results. In the past a True breeder would only keep 1 or 2 pups any cull the rest, very few peope do that now ( kinda crule).
Yes we do have problems and any good breader will not use a dog that is know to have genitic faults. I also think now days it is more published than in the passed. Human also have genic faults but that does not stop us from breeding.

Oh HD can be genitic and man made.
 

Mike

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Ok, i accept your points, but i see keeping a line as a short term gain for the breeder but a long term loss for the breed, unless a breeding programme is worked out to prevent Father/ daughter mating - i've seen that on more than one pedigree family tree - then it will be bad for the dog
As dog owners we have only recently (last 100 years) started selectively breeding dogs for show and look at the amount of ailments that they now suffer, now i do accept that dogs, like us, suffer from certain genetic faults but i don't intend to have a baby with my mother or (if i had one) daughter, because it is widely accepted the dangers of genetic problems, i'm sure the law is there for more than just morality reasons.
 

Mike

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Staffies are not big dogs, "we" go though trends I believe the smaller ones are making a comeback (at last):yeahdude: If you want a big SBT get a Am Staff. That is y the breed std to me is very important, and they should enforce the hight and weight.
If you came to England you would see a trend for taller dogs in the north and shorter more bull dog type staffs in the south, both of which are beautiful (to us) in their own right
 

Shaun

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You just need to look at the history of royalty, a bit of inbreeding was going on:lol:

Yes their are 3 types of SBT. The Terrier Type(Taller and thinner) The Bull Type (heaver more solid) and then the one the is the ballance between the two.

Father daughter was very common. The problem is and not just for SBT some lines just do not mix well. We have to find a ballance between health and Type.

was told a story the other day about breeding in the passed they only used dogs that they could get to by Bicyle and the later by train, so that is y the dogs looked dif in dif counties.
 

Mike

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I see what you mean, my personal opinion is that, many years ago (150+) the idea was to breed a good fighting dog, so i would imagine that the Staffordshire terrier+bulldog might not necessarily been that pure, perhaps other terriers were involved so that might be why there are differences in dog size.
My point being, a good looking dog is just that, never mind if it's an inch (2.54cm) over the assumed limit, but if it conforms to a standard, ie it looks like the dog it's supposed to be, then judge it on that, in our case an SBT, but we can never forget it's fighting history - and a "good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un" was the phrase used so i suppose that is where the bigger dog will look better than a smaller one.




just for the record, i find the idea of dog fighting absolutely abhorent, but that history and breeding has provided me with a faithful and loyal pet, one that will defend me without fear of his own life, so i can't complain, all i can do is return that faith and commitment
 

Shaun

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Their are only 2 or 3 natural occuring breads the Afgan Hound I think the Saluki and some other found in Africa may be wrong on the last 2, but the point is almost all dogs are man made.
Yes Fighting is a big no no:nono: .

"good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un"
never heard that one before.
It is all to do with ballance.

Have been told, in fighting times they liked more white on the dogs so you could see the blood. Strange as black brindle dogs are more popular now days.

I feel me need to know the history about the dogs before you can Judge them correctly. Take ears and skin. Thick ears bleed that is y SBT ears should be thin. Loose skin on head gives dogs something to bite.

How do you feel about tail docking?
 

Mike

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Very important to know the breed well before judging, you have to be and expert at something to judge others, i've been around staffs all my life and i reckon i can spot a good one regardless of how tall - personal choice i suppose. (but i wouldn't want to judge at a show)

Tail docking, Rotts and boxers do look odd with tails - people are leaving them on now, over here you can only dock if it is required medically
But having seen a rottweiler with a tail it's obvious why they were docked - those bloody tails are lethal, tail docking was done for a reason, if that environment is still the same then i have no arguement for or against, as long as it is done by someone that knows how to do it properly.
 

Shaun

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I am all for animal rights, but this tail docking ban is stuped. Stripping dogs is more cruel than having tails docked.
I suppose we will get used to them with long tails. They were cut for a reason, ok the dogs don't do what they were breed for but is a part of their history. It can be compaired to circumsision, babies don't get a say in the matter.
 

Mike

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I am all for animal rights, but this tail docking ban is stuped. Stripping dogs is more cruel than having tails docked.
I suppose we will get used to them with long tails. They were cut for a reason, ok the dogs don't do what they were breed for but is a part of their history. It can be compaired to circumsision, babies don't get a say in the matter.
Boxers look ok, just a bit odd, bit rottwielers, really need to be docked, they hurt people, properly done (i.e. a vet) at puppt stage there can be no harm from it, i think it is the animal rights idiots sticking noses in. Though i would like to see more regulation from the Kennel club to stop the unscrupulous breeders (puppy farmers) this i believe will benefit us, the dog lovers and equally the dogs themselves
 

Shaun

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Supply and Demand, that is the problem. Some people should just not have pets. The mentality of having a dog to complete the household is wrong, you should only have pets if you have time for them. It realy pis@#@# me off when people let the dogs run around the road, I just don't understand it. Our SPCA does nothing about it, you have to catch the dog and take it to them. I don't support the SPCA and give food I don't use to other welfare places.

Oh have you ever read a book on canine terminology?
 

Mike

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Supply and Demand, that is the problem. Some people should just not have pets. The mentality of having a dog to complete the household is wrong, you should only have pets if you have time for them. It realy pis@#@# me off when people let the dogs run around the road, I just don't understand it. Our SPCA does nothing about it, you have to catch the dog and take it to them. I don't support the SPCA and give food I don't use to other welfare places.

Oh have you ever read a book on canine terminology?
You should see some of the idiots that have dogs over here, i'm sure half the time i'm sure the dog has a hight IQ than most of them.

Not sure what you mean about the book, i've read books on the history of staffs, how to raise pups and train them and some other books on how dog's minds work, one which you might have heard of is "The wolf in your living room" the author of which escapes me but he has had it turned into a documentary too, but to be honest while i take that all on board, i'm lucky to have met a few people that really know dogs and can get almost any dog to be well behaved.
 

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