Surge Box used to help waterflow during powercuts

Discussion in 'Power cuts' started by seank, 20 Dec 2008.

  1. seank

    seank

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    I decided to change my surge device pump to a 12v pump that is permanently connected to a battery (which is connected to a battery charger- same way your alarm system works).

    What will happen is that I only need the surge device when there are powercuts as it will still "push" in a huge amount of water every minute or so to help with water movement. On a big tank it is not easy to create waterflow using a lot of 12v pumps.

    So, what do you guys think. Maybe more members can use this as an alternative way of waterflow during powercuts. One plus point is that you do not need to be at home to "switch" over when powercuts happen, and the surge box can run on its own, even with a smaller pump that uses less amps/watts etc
     
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  3. keyaam

    keyaam

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    Jacques is using 12 volt pumps as his return. Maybe you can get a bit more info from him
     
  4. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Nope, went that direction and it is not powerful enough to pump upwards- about02 meters
     
  5. scubaninja

    scubaninja

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    i was thinkin of makin a surge box, what does it really do? like what is the main points? i think that if the pump of the surge device can do what you're hoping it will it will be worth it. in the 2m i want to do as much as possible, including using a wavebox eventually. how much water does it dump everytime?
     
  6. viper357

    viper357 Admin MASA Contributor

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    Very good idea Sean, I think it will work perfectly.

    Does the surge water reach the other side of the tank?

    Also, where is it pulling water from? Remember you also ideally need to try and have some movement in your sump during extended power outages.
     
  7. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Good idea Sean. BUT - even though I know in my case mine only pumps about 1.2 metres, at least I still get some water flow in my tank during power outages. None of my nemmies have moved yet during these times, when my 12 volt return pump is working.....

    Then, at least - the bacteria in my tank, as well as in my tank's sump, stays alive, and they get oxygen - THE MOST IMPORTANT BIT WHEN THE POWER IS OUT.....
     
  8. sunburst

    sunburst

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    Great ideas. Could the two ideas not be combined to give both benefits. Are there specific battery chearges needed. ie would a car battery charger be able to run indefinetly.
     
  9. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Sean - I think that if one can get strong enough 12 volt pumps, (or perhaps even make the 12 volt pump pump FROM the sump to the surge device, instead of directly into the tank), then this would be a WINNER.......

    The only thing being - the stronger the pump (or the more the 12 volt pumps), the more battery power (meaning the bigger the battery/ies).......
     
  10. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator

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    Any lead acid battery charger will be fine, but try use one that goes into trickle charge when the battery is fully charged. You also get the ones that "switch" off when the battery is full and then comes back on when voltage drops a bit.
     
  11. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Yes Shaun - I agree - they should be fine. I just went the car battery route because I forgot of the 12 volt sealed lead acid batteries..... at the time. I would not DEFINITELY rather buy the 12 volt sealed lead acid batteries......
     
  12. Punk

    Punk

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    great idea sean! have you ever tried using those flush valves to make a borneman surge device?
     
  13. lIghty

    lIghty

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    Sean, will a surge create enough turbulance to break the water tension to allow O2 exchange?

    IMHO, I would rather run it as a return pump allowing for circulation in the Sump too.
     
  14. Ocean

    Ocean Lazy Sea Slug

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    With the power of Tunze Turbelle 12v and the fact that these can run on car batteries without lossing power, I think there must be a pump out there that push enough water fast enough.

    Just a thought,
    Jason
     
  15. Falcon

    Falcon

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    Er sean i spot a problem if you're doing what i think you doing.you want to have a surge tank above your tank with a 12v pump feeding this tank from your main tank(as obviously it wont be powerful enough to pump from your sump)?

    if so then your overflow to your sump will take most of the water from the surge tank first,so MAKE SURE YOUR SUMP CAN HANDLE THE ADDITIONAL WATER FROM THE DT AS WELL AS THE VOLUME FROM THE SURGE TANK.
    just a thought....
     
  16. Punk

    Punk

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    as far as i know he's already got a surge device on the tank so he's aware of all the complications...
     
  17. gemini9241

    gemini9241

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    y dont u guys get an A.P.U I know the brand i can get hold of is so powerfull u can run a big tank and some other stuff for 48hrs no problem it has super deep cycle batterys it looks good (looks like it is part of a surround sound system) it was designed for security systems in banks and stuff so it really works pricing is not that bad and dependant on type but it is around r3000
     
  18. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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    Yes Dean, it definately reaches all the areas in the tank- remember that it is 60 lt dumped at once

    I did that Sunburst


    Jacques, if you remember some time ago I built a surge device for the tank, but I switched it off because of a leak. Now that I am on leave - and hopefully want to go away for a couple of days- I wanted something that will still create water movement if there is a power failure, hence the decision to "fix" the surge device, and decided to put the pump in the sump.
    It still pumps up to the surge box- about 2.8 meters, but it takes longer to fill the box as the height is a factor, but I am not worried, as it takes about 04 minutes to fill the box (instead of the 01 minute and 11 seconds it used to)

    When discharged, a huge amount of water enters the display tank, "flooding" it, before washing down to the sump. I've checked the water diplacement and must admit that the flow inside the display as well as the sump (for the specific period of the flush) is 1000 times better than just having a return pump back to the display with a "low" feed/discharge

    Nope, if I new it was a toilet valve I would never have bought it... LoL

    More than enough CO2 entering both the sump as well as the display. You should see how dirty the filterfloss was everytime the water "discharged" back into the sump. It definately takes out all the detritus from underneith the liverock

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt long time ago. You should read my thread sometime (not speedreading) :whistling: :lol: :thumbup:

    YouTube - Sean Concrete tank Surge Device
     
    Last edited: 21 Dec 2008
  19. scubaninja

    scubaninja

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    thanks for the movie sean, it was really helpfull. So its basically just to create on surge of water into the tank everynow and again? thats really good. where are your plans/diagram etc of its construction? your thread is a realy long thread to look through:whistling:
     
  20. seank

    seank Thread Starter

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  21. Falcon

    Falcon

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    lol shot sean it looks good,i like looking at your pics mainly:p
     
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