Sump spec

Discussion in 'New Members' started by zaShadow, 27 Jan 2009.

  1. zaShadow

    zaShadow

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    Hi,

    I just received my 6ft tank over the weekend and the guys who built the tank also built in a sump for me.

    I was told the first compartment is for the skimmer, the second for the filter material, the third, thin part, for the heater and other equipment and the last for the return pump?

    Will this do?

    This is what I got:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2009
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i would have personally gone for a bigger sump, as there is no space there for a DSB and that is quite a important part, whats in the rest of the cabinet? maybe a remote DSB can be added.
     
  4. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    also your second part causes the water to flow over the filter stuff not thru it, which means you going to have a lot of stagnant areas for waste to collect, thats assuming it goes all the way to the bottom, cant see clearly in the pic
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    here is a pic of what i mean
    [​IMG]
    from right to left
    skimmer and heaters, then mechanical and LR, then a DSB then my return, this is by no means the best way, but it incoporates all the basic needed stuff
     
  6. zaShadow

    zaShadow Thread Starter

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    Sorry for the ignorance, still learning, but what is a DSB?

    The second divider has a space at the bottom, thus the water runs over the first, then under the second to over the third.
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    no need i am a beginner too and still learning.
    Deep sand bed, see the biological filtration section, there is a stick thread all about DSB's

    cool, i think the sump is a bit small, but lets see what the other comments are
     
  8. Mtroboer

    Mtroboer

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    Hi and welcome to MASA!! I have the same sump but have modified it a bit since I got it. Unfortunately I do not have a pic with me at the moment but I will try explain as best I can. Remove the first two glass dividers in the sump and get a container just big and deep enough for your skimmer(A smaller tank works well and is not very expensive) and place it at the left back corner of the tank by siliconing it fast to the bottom. Then fill the remaining space with fine sand (playsand or well washed sea-sand works well) about 12.5-15cm's deep. Then position the return from your tank to first enter into the skimmer chamber. Place heaters etc. where you find space for them and your return pump in the last chamber. Works very well!:)
     
  9. Apollo

    Apollo

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    Hello zaShadow,

    Dallas has already given you some lowdown on the layout of the sump.
    Since you haven't started up yet, now would be a good time to make some changes(if you can).

    A DSB is rather important to have and you want to aim for a sand depth of approx 150mm with a width of say 200mm.

    You can perhaps move some of the baffle plates in the sump or alternatively remove the second baffle. This now gives you a 17cm section to accomodate your DSB. Put your heater into the return compartment together with the pump.

    So your water will come from the DT into the first chamber with skimmer. It will flow over the first baffle into the second compartment housing your DSB and then over the second baffle to your return compartment.

    Just a thought;)
     
  10. Kanga

    Kanga Retired Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Sump - Marine Aquariums of South Africa - wiki
    DSB-H. Landman - Marine Aquariums of South Africa - wiki
    Deep Sand Bed - Marine Aquariums of South Africa - wiki
    DSB vs Bio Balls - Marine Aquariums of South Africa - wiki

    HI Shadow, here are some articles explaining the Deep Sand Bed as well as a basic sump, I do agree now is still the time when you can change. BioBalls and other filtermedia are not ideal for the marine aquarium.

    Enjoy the ride:thumbup:
     
  11. RyanvdM

    RyanvdM

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    zaShadow, what do you want to keep, fish only then your sump will be ok (not ideal but ok), but if you want any sort of coral then that sump is not ideal. Personally i wish the guys who make that sump will stop selling it to people who express an interest in keeping marines. Flip its so annoying, because 99% of guys wanto keep corals.

    zaShadow, definitely modify that sump or preferably (budget willing) change to something similar to dallasG but with even bigger DSB section.

    It will save you allot of money in the long run and your aquarium will look 100% better
     
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  12. RyanvdM

    RyanvdM

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    the only problem is that you have a piece of wood in the centre of that stand so you not going to be able to have a very large sump with dsb anyway. 2.5ft maybe. You can put your skimmer on the other side (if it is a recirculating skimmer) else if it is insump skimmer (hopefully not a Jebo) then there is not much you can do and just stick with the sump you have.

    The berlin method would suit you then (if not a fish only), just use your sump as a place to put your skimmer and heaters, activated carbon and phosphate remover. Dont put any crushed coral in there or any other form of biological filtration, well managed mechanical filtration only.

    Then use live rock and fine live sand as your primary form of filtration. It is expensive but worth it.

    Hope this helps
     
  13. RyanvdM

    RyanvdM

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    oh i forgot you could also put your DSB in the main disply but doesnt look great. especially with a standard 6ft
     
  14. zaShadow

    zaShadow Thread Starter

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    Ok, so that means that the DSB doesn't need to be part of the sump, or even after the skimmer? The space I have will accommodate a setup like this, will this work then?

    [​IMG]

    Is a small 30cm tank sufficient?, especially since that should allow me around 20cm of sand?

    Thank you all very much for your prompt support and interest.
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2009
  15. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    make the dsb the same size, i used a std 2ft tank for mine, 45cmx30x30
     
  16. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Welcome to MASA zaShadow. I agree about the sump, I had exactly the same sump and probably the same tank (6ft) - cabinet looks familiar :p
    Anyway, those sumps are not ideal for a marine tank for the following reasons.
    1. Because it is closed, you restrict evapouration and this is actually something you want to encourage as it keeps the tank temperature cooler.
    2. If you want to grow chaetomorpha(macro algae used as nutrient export) in the sump, you need light for it. Now because the sump is closed, you get a lot of damp against the inside of the top glass - it causes a hazy, misty layer on the glass restricting the light - need to clean this nearly every day.
    3. It is not user friendly, you'll soon start to swear if you work a lot in it - no space for both arms, skimmer etc.
    4. DSB size is limited.
    5. Skimmer size is limited.

    If budget allows, rather get a 3 or even 4 foot tank and put 2 partitions in it. Chamber 1 to house the skimmer, chamber 2 for the DSB and chamber 3 for the return pump - no baffles, it only takes up space. Since your tank is still empty, cut out that centre wood and replace with a square tubing frame - like a "n" shape - get someone who knows how to do this if you don't. Then you can put a big sump underneath. That's what I would do ;)
    Rather change now - you won't be sorry. For the rest, read a lot in the other forums - check out other people's sumps - ask a lot of questions - we are here to help :wave2:
     
  17. RyanvdM

    RyanvdM

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    Nope this wont work.

    If i where you id take that sump back to the shop and ask them to replace it with one similar to below, even if you have to pay in a bit. This is your best option with the space you have.

    Make the sump as big as possible and the dsb part as big as possible. you will place one or two small pieces of live rock ontop of the dsb and grow macro alge (chaetomorph preferably else caulerpa (dont put in main display)) with a Power compact light above to help the macro algae to grow.

    Lots of live rock in the main tak will also be a good idea.

    That what i'd do. Bit of a mission but worth it to do it now.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i have loads of Live rock, this will cost a bit but will really make things better
    i have LR in the tank, sump, and a separate tank, the more the better, but a good alternative i did was keep all the liverock for the tank and used bio-rock in the sump
     
  19. RyanvdM

    RyanvdM

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    sounds good. The only reason i opt for a piece of LR in the sump is to allow other critters to reproduce away from hungry fish etc that are in the main display.
     
  20. scubaninja

    scubaninja

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    welcometomasa
     
  21. zaShadow

    zaShadow Thread Starter

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    Hi again,

    Thank you all for the great advice.

    I hope that what I have chosen to do is OK:

    I have moved the sump to the left side of the cabinet and added another 2ft tank to the right as a DSB. It was kind of a challenge to get the two connected, but am currently running with a 50mm siphon pipe connecting the two tanks.

    The siphon pipe runs extremely effective and is running MUCH faster than the pump is putting out (3000L and hour). I have added 10L of water to the sump (left side tank) as a test, and the siphon moved it to the DSB (right side tank) within a few seconds.

    I have also stopped and started the system a few times to ensure that it continues running without any intervention, and it is doing just fine. The combined bottom tanks also makes for a very nice overflow volume for when the system is at rest.

    Initially it was kind of a challenge to figure it out. But with all the air removed from the siphon, and making sure it is airtight, this setup has now been running flawlessly for the last week with all three tanks running very smoothly.

    [​IMG]

    Here are the photos of what I have done (2 tanks photographed seperately):

    [​IMG]

    The sand in the DSB is 20kg play sand which I bought from Toys R Us for R35. Dorry Pets quoted me >R300 on 13kg aragonite. I would imagine that aragonite would probably have greater volume, kg for kg, compared to play sand, but still there is a HUGE price difference.
    In the next three months I will also add a light to the DSB running in a reverse cycle.

    Will this setup do the job good enough?

    ps. I will add, within the next 6 months or so, a pump to pump the water from the sump to the DSB as I am a little uncertain about the consitency of the siphon. Then I will make sure to add cut-off switches to the two pumps to ensure neither is running empty or too full.
     
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