Sump design?

Discussion in 'New Members' started by Philip.Cloete, 3 Jan 2011.

  1. Philip.Cloete

    Philip.Cloete

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    Hello...

    I have recently build a tank (1680L,610H,595W) and is looking to build a sump now.
    I have checked out some of the sumps on the web but is still not sure as to what size I should go for (How big is the sump supposed to be?).

    The tank is going to be on a stand so i want the sump underneath the tank,i have plenty of space at the bottom of my tank.

    Another thing that i was wondering about is how many chambers i should put in the sump as i want both fish and coral and want to have the best for them how many chambers should i put in and what will each chamber contain?

    As this is a 600l tank should the skimmer rating also be 600l?

    also i have 1 hole of diameter 45mm in the side of my tank so what will the rating of the pump be(how much water will that size hole supply to sump?)


    I STILL HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS BUT THOUGHT THIS WILL BE A GOOD START!!!
     
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  3. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I did a basic thread on sump designs a while back, have a look in the sticky section of beginner discussions I think its there, it should give you a good idea
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Hello Philip. And Welcome

    Skimmers should be 1.5 to 2 times the tank volume. There is a nice Shorty skimmer for good price in the for sale section. Check
    Hardware for sale for sale: JHB - Marine Aquariums of South Africa

    I got one, and its good. That one just needs a clean.

    Sump, as big as possible. For beginners and for corals a 3 sump layout. Skimmer, DSB and return. DSB should have big as possible footprint. Use playsand but wash it properly. Seeing you are in Ermelo and natural sea sand is a mission to get it home alive.
     
  5. magman

    magman

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    imo, go a skimmer as big as you can afford, rather leave the space and put reactors in as you go, and inbetween LR as long as there is flow, live rock has anerobic bacteria from 5mm in, where as a dsb you need 120-150mm, imo a dsb is a waste of space and does nothing compared to reactors that do the job.

    If you want to budget, then go the dsb route.
     
  6. Philip.Cloete

    Philip.Cloete Thread Starter

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    Ok i searched saltwater reactors and all I can find is the calcium reactor so what are the different types of reactors and what do they cost?

    another thing is if i go this route how much LR should I have in a 600L tank or does that depend on the amount of life in tank?
     
  7. magman

    magman

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    phosphate, carbon, calcium, kalk. Rather base your stock on the type of corals you want, eg sps lowbiolad, softies can handle a much higher overload.
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Well, Magman and I are on different sides of the fence. I like my DSB, he obviously do not. But I cannot advocate advanced setups to any new reefer. And also the number one restriction (well that I have) is my wallets thickness.

    Lets take two sump designs. "Simple", being skimmer, DSB and return, versus advanced, Skimmer, some liverock in sump and a lot of reactors plus return.

    COST.
    Well, same skimmer and return pumps on both setups. So, let leave that out of scope.

    Simple - DSB, couple bags of playsand. Cheap. Wash it properly - your time. Time to fully be operational, 3 to 6 months. But luckily it grows as you add livestock.

    Advanced setup, about prices for new stuff for 600L tank
    1. Phosphate reactor - R1150
    2. Carbon - DIY out of water purification, but pump etc, from 500
    3. Calcium - R2500
    4. Gas bottle 1500, refill 250 , solenoid 500 regulator 1150-
    5. Kalk - R2280
    6. Liverock - lets say 30kg in sump, at R100 to 150 per kg. Lets take 30 @ 100
    So that is R12830. For your sump...... ??? F...

    Or you can strive to get there, Phosphate, Carbon, can add them first, after couple of months and after bank balance settled. Kalk, yes, then that is next.
    Liverock in sump, I rather have rock that is expensive in my display. Does same job in display as in sump, so why not?
    Calcium, and CO2 equiptment, when you one day want to go full on SPS.

    Or else, if you got the money, why not, go for it. I'm not jealous. :biggrin:
     
  9. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i have to disagree with this. All the things mentioned do not replace nor serve the same function as a DSB. Even with a DSB you still need carbon, phospahte remover and kalk.
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip agree, but you do not need them on day one. That is why I said:
     
  11. magman

    magman

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    DSB's are old fashinoned,
    1)they are a waste of time (waiting 3-6months to become effective),
    2)they are a waste of space, LR hosts anerobic bacteria 5mm from it's surface, how much for a dsb? lol, 120-150mm,

    If you want to advoid going "the advanced route", why not just have a sump with a decent skimmer and return. But why encourage someone to have dsb's that are a time wasting, space wasting and just cheap way of substituting rock. DSb's need a big footprint to be effective, and need to be how much bigger than your tank?

    I joined the forum and all I was told was DSB, dsb, dsb, I went dsb and all I can say is it was the biggest waste of time, and is old fashioned
     
  12. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    They are not old fashioned, they are a mean to removing Nitrates, that's about it. LR will host nitrifying bacteria for the first 2 stages of the nitrogen cycle but one still needs to remove nitrates.

    So you want old, go with denitrator reactors, or more beneficial is a refugium with macro and micro algae. DSB's provide a anaerobic area for the bacteria to consume nitrates.

    if u dont want a DSB, then use one of the other LNS systems out there.

    My dsb was seeded and working within 4 weeks, my nitrates went from 30ppm to 0-5ppm and stay there, and i feed atleast 4-5 times a day and heavily overstocked.
     
  13. magman

    magman

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    You saying that LR does not breakdown nitrates?
     
  14. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i am saying that in order for nitrates to be reduced there needs to be anaerobic activity and that LR is mainly aerobic, and a better form of nitrate removal should be employed
     
  15. George

    George Sponsor

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    Please explain,

    george
     
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    explain what?
     
  17. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    before everyone falls off their horses
    my explanation of the process might be a little off. The bacteria is going to be present in any tank with a fairly deep sandbed or with live rock. There just may not be enough anoxic or anaerobic areas to keep up with a tank that is producing nitrates in large amounts or a tank with nitrates in the make-up water.

    done, thanks enjoy
     
  18. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    Deep Sand Beds are stupid and expensive. Take a 3ft tank, it takes 5 bags of play sand to make a 15cm deep sand bed. Thats R200 rand for something that doesn't work.

    Also advocating the biggest sump you can have on a tank as big is not always the best. On my new tank I went with the smallest possible sump that can accommodate my skimmer, return, heaters and zeo reactor. The sump is 750mmx350mmx300mm on a 1200mmx800mmx500mm tank. The reason for going with a small sump is that I wanted to minimise water volume to save costs on additives, heaters and water changes.

    On small tanks by all means you need the biggest possible sump to increase water volume.
     
  19. robertkukla

    robertkukla

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    i agree with RiaanP and Dallasg
     
  20. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    Also live rock can remove nitrates and does so with a better efficiency when compared to a dsb. It is just that some of the shit live rock the pet shops get is like concrete blocks and this does little in terms of hosting beneficial bacteria due to it's low surface area. So in other words if you are going to rely on live rock as a main filtration method then you need to buy good quality porous live rock.
     
  21. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    DSB do work but in order for one to be effective as a main source of filtration in a system it needs to have the same surface area of the actual system which is impractical.
     
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