Sump design help

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by erratiC, 10 Oct 2011.

  1. erratiC

    erratiC

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    Hi there guys,

    Please give me a hand here - I'm designing a new sump for a setup I'm doing..

    Have a look at the below sketches I've done and offer some criticism please.. you'll see that I'm thinking about going a Skimmer - NP Reactor/Live Rock - Return type setup.

    You'll see that my sump area isn't very wide (380mm) so I haven't got too much room to play with but I've tried to pull something from somewhere.

    I've reserved a space for my Skimmer (probably too big) and I've measured out the width needed for my Reactor but as you can see the length is to the end of the tank which obviously doesn't work - I'd like to reserve maybe a bit of room for possibly a couple more reactors.

    1st Q - Is it wise to split the Skimmer section into the Reactor section and the LR section back to the return?
    2st Q - should I remove the "Live Rock" area completely and just have the skimmer plumb directly into the NP Reactor and then from there straight to the return section?
    3nd Q - Or should I convert the "Live Rock" area and half of the Reactor section into a reservoir area?
    4rd Q - Or should add another section before the LR section and have my Reactor release into there and then from there the water would go through the LR section to the return?

    As you can see my questions could go on for a while.... but I'm going to get some suggestions first from you guys - would be appreciated.

    See below for pics - if anything is unclear, please tell me. Thanks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    shouldn't the outlet of your NP reactor exit into your skimmer?
     
  4. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    Is that the way it's supposed to be done? Reason why I ask is that seen setups like that but where the pellets pass through and clog up the skimmer... I dunno, this is why I'm asking :blush:
     
  5. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    Should I scrap this design and start over again? :(
     
  6. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    start off by getting the right np reactor one with a mesh that doesnt allow the pellets to escape the chamber..this will take alot of the pain out of running this method of filtration.. yes the NP effluent water must be fed to the skimmer inlet to skim all the mulm out.. or else funny things could happen if it enters the DT ask me i saw some weird stuff going on..

    on the pellets try hook its feed pump up to battery back up if you can it will save you having to restart the pellets everytime the power goes out in excess of 8 hours or so.. if you cant you need to wash them in NSW before the power comes back on..

    as for the sump design it looks pretty good..but a word of advice.. keep it simple..i dont think you need that many baffels..

    oh and what skimmer are you looking at using? it should be a little overated (30% or more of your total system volume) to work well with pellets...
     
  7. Quintus

    Quintus the irish aXeman

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    personally i would leave the baffles in, if you have a micro bubble problem the baffles will help.
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    you are wasting 29.6% of your sump for the NP reactor chamber.
    what a waste. Reactor can just as well stand next to the return pump, with outlet going all the way back to skimmer.

    your return chamber holds about 11.5L in total, having a pump not exposed, so say you need 100mm at minimum to prevent the pump running dry and sucking bubbles into display. that leave you with a 6.9L capability for water evaporation.

    On average, very thumbsuck figure (loads of factors influencing it) we do about 10% RO top up per week.
    Not sure of the total water volume size of your system, but for example a 300L system needs 4.3L top up per day. So you cannot even go away for the weekend.
     
  9. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    Thanks for commenting Les. True enough I was getting inspiration from your 5ft thread :) The NP Reactor I'm getting is from Marco the Waterboy and is the PHR-70H - it's rated for around 500l - he doesn't know it yet but I'll get it from him soon. I'll have to ask him if it comes with a mesh - otherwise i'll have to look for another most probably?

    Thankfully, I don't have power issues in the building I'm in - in the 2 years I've been there the only time the power went out was due to my own fault (touch wood it stays like that) but getting a backup is always good practice so I'll definitely get one.

    Skimmer-wise, I'm getting a Reef Octopus Octx 160 - it comes with a Sicci PSK 2500 pump and is supposed to be rated for a 1500l so I'm all good there :thumbup:

    Again, thanks for your input :1:

    Thanks dumbo - it'll be a pain putting them in but it'll be worth it I think too.
     
  10. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    ;)
     
  11. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    Hi Riaan - I was considering converting half of the Reactor chamber into a reservoir but trying to come up with a decent compromise for adding growth later (carx reactor, etc.) is why I came to you guys :p

    Are you suggesting that I have flow go from the overflow into the Skimmer chamber then into the LR chamber then into the Reactor/Return chamber back into the skimmer chamber and convert the old reactor chamber into a reservoir?

    My tank is around 500L btw.
     
  12. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    Sexy beast - thanks! Will do.
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2011
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    even with ATU, you need to ensure that return chamber holds at least minimum 2 days variation due to water evaporation. In case the ATU decides to stop working for whatever reason.
    Removing the chamber for reactor, increase the return chamber to about 200 by 380, that give you 11.4L water evaporation.

    BTW 500L system, on average need 7.14L RO per day. So still not ok.

    Increasing your baffle / divider heights to 300mm, and that will increase fluctuation buffer to 15.2L
    So that would be 2 days.

    Only issue would be the drowning height of the skimmer. If its outlet is below 300mm then you need to lift it. But it still needs to fit into cabinet, so space above skimmer might be an issue.

    Lastly, I prefer the first divider to be 10mm higher than the second. So that you do not suck macro algae from centre chamber into the skimmer pump inlet. Who knows, maybe one day you realize that sand give more filtration capability than live rock, and you maybe one day want to use the area above the sand as refugium. So keep your options open.
     
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  14. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    @RiaanP, here's another design I came up with..

    The Reservoir chamber in the back has dimensions 60cm x 13cm x 32cm giving around 25L. The return chamber is around 20L.

    Any thoughts?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    no reason why it could not be higher, then it can keep more water. And at the back, how will you refill it?
     
  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Do you have your skimmer?
    and the return pump plus NP pellet reactor. and its pump.
    Do you have all their dimensions and the footprint they need inside the sump? Including height available?
     
  17. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    where will your NP reactor effuent go after it exits the reactor? the return chamber or be redirected to the skimmer chamber

    what you could do is add a T piece to your skimmer pump inlet.. and put the effluent pipe into the top of the T that way the skimmer will pull both water from the surrounding chamber aswell as from the NP reactor 1st..
     
  18. erratiC

    erratiC Thread Starter

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    The side door will come off quite easily as well as the front being quite open.. what is the conventional height of a sump normally? 40cm? 50cm? Or is it personal preference?

    The Skimmer has a footprint of 230mm x 170mm with height 530mm and the NP Reactor has a footprint of 170mm x 170mm with height 510mm. The height of my sump area from base to top is +- 770mm.

    That is an awesome idea - I'm going to do that. Thanks Les.

    Side question though - would it be better to place the reactor in the return chamber or have it in the same chamber as the skimmer? Only difference I can see is that I would use less piping if it was with skimmer?

    Thanks again guys - your help really is appreciated.
     
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