Sump design - constraints - good advice please

Discussion in 'Anything DIY Related' started by Jhavenga, 20 Aug 2010.

  1. Jhavenga

    Jhavenga

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    Hi,

    I made the mistake of buying a tank before I knew what exactly is needed for a marine aquarium. Now I need to build a sump that fits in my cabinet, but the space is limited.

    Tank dimensions:
    1200mm (l) x 450mm (w) x 500mm (h)

    Cabinet is split into two compartments (split in half in the middle), but I cannot remove the split since it provides support for the tank). So I am basically limited to one compartment with a maximum size of: 470mm (l) x 330mm (w) x 580mm (h) for the sump.

    Any good/effective sump designs that will fit into this space? I wouldn't want to have to top-up the water on a daily basis, so please keep that in mind when providing advice. Thanks.

    Hein
     
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  3. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    If you really want to go the DSB rout then you will have to have the DSB outside the cabinet. In another room say.

    But a DSB is not a must have. There are other means or Nitrate control. Such as a nitrate reductor. Deltec and Aqua Medic have very good ones. Or you could build one your self out of a canister filter. Here is a link of the principle if you are interested.

    NFP509 Nitrate Filter with Pump | Nitrate Reactors | The Aquarium Solution
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    ok, you only got a 470 by 330mm footprint.
    Return chamber about 100-150mm, Skimmer chamber 200 to 250mm. So what is left is 170 to 20mm for a dsb. That aint gona work...

    No matter what you do, it will be a cramped up spaced. Maybe have skimmer and return in same chamber. But that is not ideal. You want mechanical, biological then chemical chambers, in that order.

    My advice, built a support steel member. Drain the tank. Remove partition. fit steel support. And built your sump inside. Another problem will be to get the new sump in, as obviously the middle support got a down beam in the front of the cabinet. So you have to remove and re-fit it afterwards if you built the sump outside and want to slide it into place later.

    Best post a picture of the front view of cabinet. doors open. So that we can see what you see.
     
  5. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I have seen guys with similar cabinats.
    You could also do a split sump if you like.
    Just join then with 1 or 2 x 50mm pipe through the support. Then you would have more space for equipment.
     
  6. Dikdaan

    Dikdaan

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    I agree with butcherman, make a hole or 2 and put pipe through to connect the two compartments, then you can have your whole sump in there!!!
     
  7. Jhavenga

    Jhavenga Thread Starter

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    Thanks so far

    Thanks for the advice so far.

    I think Butherboy and Dikdaan's idea sounds the best. I actually thought of it as well while I was working. That would give me the most space.

    How often do one need to remove the sump for cleaning, etc. Or do you do it while it's in the cabinet?

    Riaan, there's a pic of the tank and cabinet with open doors under My Photos. I don't know how to upload a picture in a post.

    So if I build two sumps, connected through the partition in the cabinet by a 50mm pipe or two, what would you suggest for a setup in the sump? What should be first, second, last, etc?
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    No need to clean the sump. Only skimmer cup, and every couple of months just check skimmer pump and return pump.
    Ok, I do clean the front glass. I like to see what is inside.

    Also checked your Pic. No doors hanging on to the middle compartment.

    Effort needed to wok with two sumps that is connected (with connecting holes alligning 100%) via holes in the dividing plank vs using one 1.1m sump. Well I go for the bigger one.

    Looks easy to remove that plank, and replace it with 1 20mm square tubing support.

    Search around, there are other guys on this forum who also went the double sump route. And the trouble they had to connect them.
     
  9. SaltyReef

    SaltyReef

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    I have the same cabinet I removed the middle divider completely and added a 40mm x 40mm brace in front of the sump, it is not fixed permenantly but fits tightly.

    I then used a standard 3 foot tank as a sump and just added glass diveders to creat skimmer DSB and return, check my photos
     
  10. Jhavenga

    Jhavenga Thread Starter

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    Thanks guys - maybe it will be easier to remove the plank and put a brace in... I'll have a look over the weekend.
     
  11. Dikdaan

    Dikdaan

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  12. Dikdaan

    Dikdaan

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    The part with *** is sareefkeeping
     
  13. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    This is exactly what i was suggesting :)
     
  14. Dikdaan

    Dikdaan

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    yip, its an easy design and not to difficult if you want to keep the split in the middel of the cabinet...
     
  15. Jhavenga

    Jhavenga Thread Starter

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    Thanks guys.

    Do you know whether the AquaH2O tanks have tempered glass? I need to work on getting the water from the tank to the sump, so I'm thinking of drilling the tank. But I'm not sure whether it has tempered glass or not.
     
  16. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Try google DIY syphon over flow, or look here on MASA. RiaanP has some good advice on this matter.
     
  17. Lycan

    Lycan

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    Hi there

    I think I have exactly the same setup.
    We removed the mid section and built in a sump and DSB and then fitted a door to close over the mid section.
    Came out quite sweet :thumbup:
    Now how do I post a PIC ??
     
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip, I did run a overflow on a tank that was not drilled. It works, but it is not totally 100% failsafe. Needs weekly maintenance, Actually just a check. Also some LFS do stock overflow syphon boxes at over R1000. But thay also have exactly the same drawbacks than the system I used.

    another option on two sumps. Also been there, done that. This option is a lot more stable than the overflow from the display. And it works. No need to have one tank higher than the other. The black pipe on the top is a 6mm irrigation pipe.
    [​IMG]
    That goes to an old style powerhead with a venturi connection.
    [​IMG]

    Just do not do what I did. Powerhead was in display, And when the power did go, I did syphon back to sumps via that little pipe a lot of water. Wow what a surprise.


    And here is the tank overflow
    [​IMG]
    Inside, got a U. Connected to bridge part that goes over the rim. Then outside another U. With T piece, that let the water go to the sump and open top as Durso. To make it work I also have the same black pipe fitting idea to suck any bubble out. The T piece must be high. But below water line. Else the water level in the U piece insiode the tank is too low, allowing air bubble to go deep enough to enter the bridge portion, eventually causing the syphon to fail. The irrigation pipe maintains the syphon, unless it blocks. Also the pump will blow small air bubbles into the tank every time it does suck out a bubble form pipes. Irritating, but at least you know the syhon is still working.
    [​IMG]
    Here I used the same on a frag tank I had. Tank only filled half way.

    Again, this do work, but is not totally failsafe. Can see the blavk pipe going out on top and fitted to pump in far right of tank.
     
  19. Jhavenga

    Jhavenga Thread Starter

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    At the moment I think I am going to opt for drilling it (after speaking to RiaanP yesterday). Is one 50mm hole enough? (only one hole drilled for overflow) Or should there be more holes for other purposes?
     
  20. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    1 x 50mm should be fine. how big a return pump you going to use?
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    50mm pipe can handle up to 6000L/h under gravity.
    More than enough.

    Just make sure that you have the fitting before they drill. Else you might find the hole too small for your bulkhead.

    I drilled 2 tanks at Idol Marine, and got the fittings also from them. Might be more expensive (the fitting from them) but it is just soo much easier...
     
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