Some myths for us

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by dallasg, 22 Dec 2012.

  1. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  3. ChrisRaubs

    ChrisRaubs

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    Hmmm, interesting....

    Imagine debating some of those myths.... A whole lotta :banghead::censored::87::54:
     
  4. HiDeeHo

    HiDeeHo

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    You go girl !!
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    thats the point.. although most think these topics just get people to argue, but what they reallyf do is get people thinking and not just being sheep @irie ivan i am sure would agree
     
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  6. pkc

    pkc

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    All these things Eric speaks of are why I gave up on live rock in the eighties and use completely life or dead tissue free dead coral and try to tell others there are so many non testable substances in your waters and fish drink this water and these substances get into your fish and to a lesser extent,your corals as well.

    If algae are present in abundance it can be the most affective chemical filter imaginable via osmotic intake, that’s why I push the use of affective algae environments with in your systems.

    The bit on bubbles is not right, the types of coralsregularly in heavy bubble areas of a reef are not small polyp species.
    If they are there they receive at a least half the tidetimes,(half of a 24 hour period) of still waters to feed in.

    Plus the commercial collectors that collect the corals you buy,(as I have been a part of that for years in the past), collect from near dead still water areas in relation to waves and bubbles, the waters are still current affected though.

    Eric’s points of extreme importance to me from the article.

    What kills virtually all marine aquarium species.
    1.All too often, the fish dies, because while it may not have ammonia to contend with, it has water filled with chemicals we can't and don't test for.

    The problems with zoas and other forms of corals.
    2.The problem with the rationale, seemingly logical though it may be, is that success of these type species may make the tank even more incompatible for the success of stony corals because they are typically superior competitors (usually by secreting waterborne chemicals that inhibit or kill the stony corals or by the capability of overgrowing them).


    Why I do not use a skimmer and rely on algae instead.
    2.My point is that once nutrient levels are low and conducive to a healthy aquarium, and until other secondarily important aspects of protein skimming are experimentally validated and quantified, any skimming over that required to maintain low levels of organic and inorganic pollutants is overskimming. Why? Because if the water is cleared of those things that are detrimental, it is also likely to be equally cleared of things that are beneficial.
     
    Last edited: 22 Dec 2012
  7. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Wow, thanks @dallasg, again, and as always you teach me!
     
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  8. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Was in the hobby for quite a few years and fed a whole lotta bs by most lfs, was not until I actually lived on an atoll that a lot of their bs became aparrent. I completely agree with Eric B. on those myths. Just to quickly look at a few of 'em:
    Bubbles: was told it irritates fish, especially their gills... To the point of being toxic. Well, hmmm, go take a dive on the reef... Count the bubbles....
    When I installed a carlson surge device i was told the same thing... Owner of lfs was trying to sell me a tunze wavebox instead... Go figure.. My dump bucket emptied 20 litres in a few seconds... Show me a tunze wavebox that can flatten polys like that and costs less than R100...

    Above also ties up with flow... Was told by lfs and few other reefers its to much, as its gonna damage the flesh on the polyps.... I asked whether they have ever even swam in the ocean..
    Please repeat after me.... THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH FLOW...

    When exposing most of my reef to air with lughts on, was told its gonna burn them.... Why was the most colourful corals i witnessed in the tropics the ones exposed to air at low tide.. Even the same coral was less significantly less colorful a few cm below the parts exposed daily...

    When corals break, they fall on their sides... Perfect sense for us to mount frags in the same way... Unfortunately the market dictates differently...

    Coral regrow over dead skeleton... Of course corals do... But just not the same coral whose skeleton us exposed... Had vw beetle suzed acro colonies covered in mushrooms in shallow water... Which reminds me... Silure i read somewhere that softies like lower light... Ja whatever... I'll show you lobo and sarcophytons and even cesputilaria less than 1m below the surface in crystal clear water....

    I have to disagree with eric though.. You cannot overskim a tank.... As long as you give the corals enough food and flow... But then again.. We Dont! So dammit, he right again...
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2012
  9. pkc

    pkc

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    Its quite sad hey the crap that gets fed to us by the LFS at times, I have my own views on the bubbles thing to a degree, but I couldn’t agree more on the rest.

    Too much over all flow is impossible for hard corals especially, this is needed to keep them clean of rubbish that kills polyp areas and allows algae to take over.

    I couldn’t agree more that the coral is not harmed coming out of the water and into the light, the corals have their own sunscreen and a moist coating from its mucus that we copied and use in our sunscreens.
    So the light and a short amount of time out of the water is of no detriment unless the temperature is seriously bad or pressure is applied to the polyps.

    Its funny in a way with the out of the water thing, if you wish to breed clams they have to come out of the water with the heat of a warm day copied as in a very large tide variation in order to get them to spawn easily.

    We would transport corals for over 14 hours in just moist material or paper, never any problems!

    Once i left a few varied corals for two days still in the paper in cool conditions to see how they would be affected and no harm was done.

    We were fed the same crap many years ago.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2012
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    What gets me is that lfs's still feed the same crap, surely if a lfs doesn't have a super looking reef DT then it's not worth listening to them? Everyone believes the proof is in the pudding...
    Hence why I had the masa meet at me so all could see ceramic rings and nothing more working wonders

    I really do love this hobby
     
  11. CJT

    CJT

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    Hi dallasg when you say ceramic rings do you mean the bio cubes or the actual ceramic rings?
     
  12. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I use the old 1980's ceramic rings and bio balls
     
  13. CJT

    CJT

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    I have them and was going to add them to my sump as I have heard from someone else also that they work do you run the filter pads ontop of them?
    Is there a pic of your sump so I can check it out?
    I have put on a pellet reactor can I run that with the ceramic rings and bio balls?
     
  14. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Will look for a pic, look on my thread

    The secret to running them is keeping them clean, prefilter the water and keep them very clean, I used too put them in a bucket of tank water and swoosh them around

    Yes they will work with pellets
    Pellets remove nitrate and phosphates, ceramic rings and bio balls convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrates
     
  15. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    Great article
    Borne man is one of the few commentators on our hobbie that gives really in-depth and properly researched information.
    It's a great pity that he no longer is to be found on any forum that I know of.


    Something he said that I think we could all learn from is his suggestion that we all try to read more, learn more and understand more how our complex system's systems fit together and function and that the attempted oversimplification and "dumbing down"of them often is the cause of many of the "myths " that crop up often due to our need to provide simple sound bites to describe how aspects of our tanks work.

    This applies just as much to the advise given out on on our forum as to some of the poor advice doled out by some lfs's.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2012
  16. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I agree bob, you should read the link he gives to Shimeks article
     
  17. CJT

    CJT

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    Thanks dallasg
     
  18. carlosdeandrade

    carlosdeandrade

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    Where can I find this link bud,, is it at the bottom of the link you provided?
     
  19. dallasg

    dallasg Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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