Slight OD, residue issues

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by cknipe, 8 Aug 2014.

  1. cknipe

    cknipe

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    Hi Guys,

    My tank was running a bit skew in terms of parameters, so yesterday I tested, and dosed what I thought was correct, as per the reef chemistry calculator... Not the first time I am having issues with this, so my means and methods will more than likely need to change now. Anyways...

    Yesterday, parameters was a bit low, and reading:
    Salinity: 30
    pH: 7.6
    KH: 7
    Ca: 500
    Mg:1400

    PH and KH is obviously a issue, and I want my MG in the 1600 range so try and keep a hand on GHA... As this is a 500L system, I jumped onto the reef chemistry calculator. I can't recall the exact amounts, but to raise MG to 1600, the calculator recommended something absurd like almost 2200mg of Randy's MG mix :whistling: Yes, I checked three times that all the values given was right.

    Anyways, I dozed less than half of what the calculator recommended. 25 tbps of KH went in, and 35tbps of MG went in, with about 5 cups of salt (which also contains Ca and Mg naturally).

    Almost immediately (let's say 30 minutes after dosing)... I started getting a white dust settling all over the tank. It's all over the rocks, the GHA, I am getting white (very hard to remove) stains against my glass on the inside... I thought by myself, oh hell... It's OD time again, but left it and trusted in myself and went to bed.

    I just tested parameters again, and whilst too much KH definitely went in, the rest of the parameters isn't as whacked as I thought it would have been.

    Today, parameters was a bit low, and reading:
    Salinity: 36
    pH: 8.0 (still lowish)
    KH: 16 (uhm, and I dosed less than half of what was recommended) :(
    Ca: 400 (a very, very sudden drop)
    Mg:1900 (I expected MUCH more)

    So the MG isn't as high as I thought it would have been. The KH is obviously a bit of a issue, as is the pH that is still on the low side of things.

    Questions time...

    Recommended course of action? Do I trust the Ca reading and dose a bit of Ca? How would one go about raising the pH that little bit extra without affecting the rest of the parameters? And then lastly, I take it I can't really do anything about the high KH except wait it out?

    I would also just like to hear about the sudden influx of white powder all over my tank, and the white stains against the glass. As it is VERY hard against the glass, I am leaning to believe that this is the Mg doing this, but obviously not sure - especially considering that the readings are much lower than what I thought. The entire tank is covered by this white dust. Going to be one hell of a cleanup, but I'm thankfully not too stressed as a tank move is coming...

    Test kits are fine. Nothing expired, had no issues with them ever before in the past.

    @Snoek - tank is going to be dropped. Had enough of standing on chairs and not being able to reach and what not :thumbup:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    your kH jumped 9 points and your ph still so low, i would test again...
    seems weird

    first off i would change much for the next few days, and let things settle
     
  4. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Hmm... Yesterday's readings was taken late in the afternoon, whilst today's was early morning.

    Tested again now to be sure and pH at 8.0, and KH at 16 (15 drops = blue, 16 drops = green, and 17 = drops = yellow, so test correct I believe).

    This is with the RedSea test kits.
     
  5. Marius Pienaar

    Marius Pienaar

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    you must devide drops by two if im not mistaken!! Someone pls confirm!!
     
  6. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Doesn't say anything to that affect on the instruction card or booklet. I've never divided in the past.
     
  7. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    Dosing so much so quickly can shock the system. If you going to dose something do it in small increments.

    BAD THINGS HAPPEN FAST be patient dude take it slow...
     
  8. MistaOrange

    MistaOrange

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    I think I remember you asking these questions before & if that pic was a bit harsh I apologise but someone had to speak up.
     
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Seachem Alkalinity says
    The number of drops to get to yellow divided by 2 is the total alkalinity.

    Not sure of other brands
     
  10. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    PH will be different in the afternoon and the morning. Especially if you do not have macro algae running in refugium with opposite light schedule.
     
  11. Blue Reefer

    Blue Reefer MASA Contributor

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    @cknipe adding 2200g of mg is probably only needed if you got absolutely 0 mg in you water that quantity is more than double mg than what I have added to my tank of 700litres in a year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  12. 4age

    4age

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    Calcium is fine at 400...would be more worried about stress to corals from sudden spike in kh
     
  13. Marius Pienaar

    Marius Pienaar

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    jip sorry I see u use Red Sea test kit!! My bad!!
     
  14. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Then the chemistry calculator is wrong too. Everyone is wrong, except "MASA".

    The warning reads (seeing that it is not all available in the screen capture):
    Yes, it was added at once, yes, it was dripped over time (maybe half an hour) as it wasn't mixed with allot of water. Regardless, according the the calculator, it CAN all be added at once - at least for the Mg part of it.

    RedSea KH test does not need to be divided as I've stated (at least, it's not mentioned *anywhere* in the instructions) and granted, the KH is now unfortunately on the high side, as dosing half of what the calculator stated, resulted in an overdose - thankfully not fatal.

    Sure, there more than likely may be some stress to the two corals I have, they are open however and looks happy. I'm not too concerned as there's no behaviour changes in any live stock (yet). Also well aware of the fact that pH is different between the mornings and evenings, that is why I *mentioned* it.

    As to my questions...
    Recommended course of action - do nothing. Accepted, and I haven't once said that anything else has been added... Not even the skimmer is doing anything more than what it normally does.

    As to the rest of my questions... Nevermind, MASA is obviously too interested in crucifying someone for making a small, none fatal mistake, instead of answering questions from fellow reefers. Going to be hell, but the cleanup has started to get the residue out of the water. Not much else that you can do.

    As to why PH is still low even with the KH increasing... Guess we'll never find out.

    That being said - I'm out of here. I've had it with this constant crucifying the *moment* something happens that "MASA" is not pleased with. We all make mistakes, we all (hopefully) learn from it, and sometimes it does unfortunately take longer for some individuals to learn than others. I've asked *loads* of questions before on measurements, yes. They are important. Have I asked this specific question before, I actually don't think so. But that is also completely irrelevant and besides the point.

    I *KNOW* I made a mistake. I don't need "MASA" to run finger wagging scream foul! The question was related to what the residue was remaining in my water, and whether I should worry about the drop in Ca or not. I didn't ask for the entire forum to once again, come screaming foul and going over, and over, and over about the mistake I made. I *KNOW* I made a mistake...

    Untitled.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    I did not crucify you cknipe
    sorry if you perceived it as that. Just stated that you should rather do your parameter tests at the same time everyday.

    The white dust is most likely calcium participating out of the mixture. OK, I'm no chemical expert, so do not quote me. But calcium settling very much the same as in your kettle. I hope it will dissolve again later.
     
  16. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Didn't say you did @RiaanP Granted, I'm often quick to jump on my high horse, but I'm definitely not the only one either - that is most certainly very obvious.

    The Ca participating out makes sense. Not only does it explain the 100ppm drop in Ca in less than a 24 hour period in time, but it also explains why its SUCH a mission to get it off the glass. I know cleaning Ca that settled from any surface is not a easy task.

    I will keep an eye on my Ca over the next couple of days, and if it's going to drop 100+ppm per day, then new Ca would most certainly need to be added back into the system.

    What bothers me personally, is where did this go wrong? I've added a screen capture of the Reef Chemistry Calculator, SHOWING CLEARLY over 2200mg of Mg is required - the same with the KH too. I've added less than half - hence, what I received is absolutely not what was expected.

    Is the Reef Chemistry calculator (that is vividly advertised on MASA as "the" tool to use), actually not "the" tool to use?

    This isn't the first time that I've burned my hands with Randy's mix and the reef chemistry calculator, and I will more than likely now stop using it and go back to normal commercial products. It obviously doesn't work for me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  17. Meg G

    Meg G

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    hel guys ca and mg is prohibiting any more uptake. look for ca saturation somewhere in the tank. white stuff in tank is caco its like when you mix water with salt and its white. look for gravel that is bind together sand bed where you dose may bee. you must take this out first. how big is your tank. randy farly holmes is a briliant. he state thet do not raise your tank more than 100ppm of mg a day or 1mg/l kh a day and 25 ca a day and not to try fixing all three at ones. tackle one at a time get mg right then kh and then ca
     
  18. cknipe

    cknipe Thread Starter

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    Tank (incl. sump) is +- 500L. And the caco (if it's that) was at the bottom of my sump yesterday, but has since nwo ended up in the DT all over the substrate and LR - which is part of my problem right now :tt2:

    I do stir things up very frequently at the moment and as soon as it settles and the water clears, I stir it up again. Filter sock should catch most of it over time I'm sure and the skimmer also picks up a far bit.

    The light is unfortunately not playing with today, but attached is a rock with some (thankfully dead) GHA, covered in the white powder. The whole tank basically looks like this.

    I was planning to break down the tank to move it, but it was still a good few months down the pipelines. I think that move just got prioritized now, because to clean this mess up isn't going to be quick, nor easy. Obviously also how longer I leave it, how more the Ca (presumably) is going to build up on the glass which is also in itself a real PITA to remove.

    IMG_20140808_134834[1].jpg
     
  19. mariusmeyer

    mariusmeyer

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    Did you dose dry chemicals or liquid? And if you did liquid, did you make the stock solution as per his recipe. I am currently upping mg in 1500L from 1000 to 1400 and I need 5kg of magnesium chloride dry or 12,7Litres of liquid. I have been using that same calculator for the last 2 years since I moved over to DIY chemicals and have found it to be extremely accurate.

    We just need to find out what went wrong so that it does not happen again.
     
  20. Meg G

    Meg G

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    ca is one to three in your system meaning if you rais mg with 1 your ca go down by three in your case mg went up with 300 so your ca went down with a hundred. it will stable lize in a couple of days so. i have seen that 1gram mg will raise my 100l cube not with one ppm but with 40. and then my ca goes down by 12 at 35ppt
     
  21. Meg G

    Meg G

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    its just flaking normal with us guys dosing kalk wasser. it will clear up in couple of days.
     
    Last edited: 8 Aug 2014
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