Skimmer in sump question

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by Alias, 18 May 2011.

  1. Alias

    Alias

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    My Ts1 doesn't fit in the overflow chamber but could possibly fit in the return chamber next to my return pump. Any major reasons why this is a no no?

    Else i could plumb it externally, any ideas on how to do this? @RiaanP the guru?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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  3. durleo

    durleo

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    I dont think it will work cos the the level of the return chamber fluctuates alot and you might have mico-bubbles enter the display.
     
  4. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    "MCB"
     
  5. Theo

    Theo

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    That is a big problem alias because the steps in filtration should be 1-mechanical,2-biological and 3-chemical. mechanical being skimmer-because this takes out all undesolved particals, then biological- this being live rock/DSB/refugium, and last chemical-any type of reactor you might have(phosphate,NP-bio-eactor,kalk,calcium ect... If possible you can build small tank(big enough for skimmer to fit) and lift it above sump, let back drop run in that tank, and from that tank via 50mm or what ever plumbing to sump. Thenlet skimmer run in that top tank.
     
  6. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    can you post a picture of your sump so that we can have a look at possible options?

    if it absolutley cant be put anywhere else i cant see a problem if the waterlevel is stable.. but things like power outages may cause the skimmer to overflow when the power comes back on as the waterlevel will be higher in the last compartment..
     
  7. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Put it on top of the DSB
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    the ideal is, mechanical, biological then chemical.
    You want your skimmer to remove whatever it can, before it settles on your DSB. But in my opinion, I do not want the skimmer to remove all it can. I want the worms and pods in the DSB / refugium / live rock / whatever you use as biological in the second chamber, to get food. Or how else will their population expand? But then again, you do not want to smother the DSB area either. That is why I prefer to use an in-sump skimmer as opposed to external setup where all the water from overflow directly feeds into skimmer. Other guys prefer that. But I want my tube anemones in my DSB to have something at least. So I want some water to bypass my skimmer. And some food particles to reach the DSB. Also beneficial egg spawning released in DSB or refugium that could go back to tank as food is skimmed out if your skimmer is after your biological space.

    When I started, I had a 90L display. Normal Daro tank. And a standard 60L daro sump. Due to space and trying to set up as big a DSB as possible, I did make use of only 2 chambers. Inlet and DSB as one, and skimmer and return as next. It worked. And cheato grew like mad. Here is an old picture. I even had a scrubber. Inlet is the milk bottle in the right back corner.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, the mechanical - biological - chemical method is the better option. As you can see in the picture a lot of things collecting on the DSB and inside the cheato ball. And i had to stir that up by hand and shake it out the cheato ball. What I'm saying, it can work if you got no other options. But it is better to do the "traditional' method.

    Converting a TS1 into external, is not that easy. Do you have a picture of your sump area? So other possible solutions could be suggested. If you do have some extra space to allow another small tank next to your sump, and you have enough space above the skimmer cup. Then you might lift that small tank higher than the sump so that it overflow into the sump. First post a picture, before I jump into Google SketchUp.
     
  9. Meneer

    Meneer

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    Normally panels can be quite easily removed with a sharp blade or guitar string and just resiliconed - up and running the next day.
     
  10. DanieDJ

    DanieDJ

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    space issues

    Maybe you want to trade your skimmer for a hang on skimmer if your space is limited, Converting that model for external will be very difficult indeed.
    I did a rebuild on my sump to have my p-skimmer first then DSB then chem before heating and going back up the lift pump.
    AS the last chamber changes with daily evaporation this will cause problems (to wet or to dry skimming) If you can rig a RO top up and have no other option this might be a last resort.
     
  11. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    Will put up pics tonight. Im guessing the best long term option will be making space for the skimmer in the first chamber. I have a hang-on im using right now, not ideal. thanks for the input so far.
     
  12. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    [​IMG]

    This is sump, i rate im just going take out all the partitions and redo them in the right dimensions. Could i just make a little box around the skimmer? or will this create flow problems?
     
  13. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Very easy to just re do the sump....but in stead of using guitar strings / gut etc. Buy a cheap metal measuring tape...cuts like a knife through butter.

    Just a question , are you sure thats a TS1...looks like a bit odd
     
  14. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    Lol, no that's a boyu. My ts1 doesn't fit so using this for now. Sump is getting rebuilt this week.
     
  15. FransSny

    FransSny

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    LOL...thought I was seeing things ;) Also I would replace that ball valve you have on the inlet with a PVC one...
     
  16. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    I couldn't find one that size. This one is stainless steel so it won't rust
     
  17. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Hear what you are saying, that looks like a standard 32 / 40 mm pipe ??? They shouldnt be hard to find...go to irrigation shops. PE has a few.

    As far as I remember (under correction) some of those BV's have a copper ball. What happens is when you open & close the thing , small pieces of copper comes embedded in the SS and creates a reaction.

    Also good to remember if you ever need plate cut & bend. If the shop doesnt have a dedicated press for SS / Aluminium they will embed other stuff into your prize reflector

    BTW: unless medical grade SS is used (think it is called 316 L ...havent sold steel in ages ) it will rust.
     
    Last edited: 21 May 2011
  18. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    Cool, thanks for the advice. Its a 25mm pipe, couldn't find that size ball valve in pvc. The ball is also stainless steel. Will keep an eye out for it rusting though.
     
  19. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Cool good luck, taking the sump apart is a breeze really so you should be cool with that.

    I would be a bit concerned wit a 25 mm overflow as blockage happens more easily. Also 25 mm PVC ball valaves are standard at any irrigation shop , you can also try the jacuzzi guys.
     
  20. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    Yeah, that's why I have an emergency oveflow. Will ask some of the jacuzzi guys..
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    That is really a weird sump layout. And before I get lynched for that, allow me to justify my statement. The first chamber, a high divider where water will never reach the top. To thin to fit anything. And with the baffle, takes up 25% up the sump space. Will be better of cutting out that first pane completely.

    But then the second divider (before the DSB) is too low. If skimmer inlet pump is stronger than the return pump, then you will suck water back from above the DSB to be re-skimmed. Last, the sump got sooooo much space available, when Eiskom plunges you into darkness to allow for extra water draining back from display. I would increase the dividers height to the maximum it can be without drowning the skimmer. Even if it is too deep, then I would put the skimmer on a stand. Calculate the extra water volume that you can add to your system. Depends on the space between the skimmer cup and bottom of the stand obviously.

    And the first divider must be 10mm higher than the second.

    And yes, replace that ball valve. Everything rust eventually in seawater. And rather check for a gate valve. Just so much easier to set but it is not cheap.

    That is one serious looking return pump. Or the picture is misleading. What is the pump rating and your system volume? And sump width?

    What is the skimmer standing on? Is it directly on the sand?
     
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