Simple Simple CLS - PLease Help

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by NADEEM, 29 Nov 2012.

  1. NADEEM

    NADEEM

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    Hello all - i have been reading the threads on CLS and checking out the pro's and con's.
    The one thing that really draws me to CLS is that it can be nennie safe and mainly that there is no ungly powerheads in your tank.

    Questions : does a CLS have to be as complicated and hectic as the threads ive already seen on masa, some guys setups have more plumbing than my whole house,lol.

    Tank will be a 65cm cube, placed in a corner so 2 viewing sides, other 2 sides will be painted/covered. so can i use 2 x return pumps, and split each ones plumbing into to at the top so what i have is - 4 return pipes coming back into tank, 2 over each covered/painted pane and then i could try get those little plastic funnel looking fitting that directs and forces flow out of pipe. what you guys say, would this work?

    I saw a that guy setup CLS and then the pipe runs deep into the display tank - tell me, how does this work??? when eskom flips the switch, what happens then??? does the cls drain the entire DT into the sump and lounge floor?

    PLease help, would really like to be able to setup this cube without any powerheads in it but also, cls must be simple like i explained above.

    Sharp
    nadeem
     
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  3. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Closed loop isnt simply adding more return pumps. as the name suggests, the inlet to the pump comes directly from a pipe in the tank (the pump for cls are external) and the outlet feeds back into the tank. This means that should the power cut out, nothing can syphon out.
     
  4. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    you can do 2 return pumps with 2 outlets on each. the hard part is to make sure you are getting flow in the entire tank, with no dead spots.

    The deep outlets in the tank can help with this. the catch is you need a syphon break just above the water line.

    Also ensure your overflow will handel the added flow from 2 retuns, and that your overflow is "nenie safe"
     
  5. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    i see that this is the way its usually done, but im thinking if the return pumps are used for the 'flow' in the tank and the outlets are not deep into the DT, then even in a power out, the amount of water siphoned out of the DT can be handled by the sump, no problems.
    tank dimensions are not huge, so 2 decent return should be able to sort out flow? not so?
    and if i have 4 return pipes into the tank, i can point them downwards in the DT or whatever direction i want to create decent flow in tank.

    question : is it set in stone that for a CLS, one has to have external pumps drawing water from the DT?
    in a 65cm cube without loads of LR in DT, can decent flow be achieved with 2 x return pumps?

    the thing that concerns me about the external pumps is the noise also.

    i would maybe need to have 2 overflow pipes to handles the flow from 2 x strong return pumps.
     
  6. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    how does one sort out a siphon break just above the water line? if there is an easy way, i could take the returns like halfway down into the DT and then be sure to get decent flow in DT
     
  7. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    The flow created by return pumps isnt the same as flow pumps. Our tanks need the random flow, not the directional flow that return pumps supply.
    What filtration will you have in the sump? You dont want water flowing too fast through the sump.
     
  8. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    i undertsand, lets say i use sun sun pumps, i will have one one either say, same here, i will have 2 returns on either side, this will create the random flow? only worry is if it will create ENOUGH random flow.

    Filtration, sump will have only 3 compartments, first compartment is overflow/skimmer/heater and maybe some LR if there is Space. 2nd compartment will have LR and some Cheato, 3rd compartment will have return pump/s only.

    I intend moving things over from my Boyu TL550, so apporximately 16 to 18kg rock in DT which will be scaped nice and open to not create too much detritus buildup and so.
     
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Everything is the same.
    Using return pumps as sole means of water movement, that means that if you use 2 * 5000L/h pumps.
    That means you pull out 10000L/h from your sump.
    That means you need 10000L/h to enter the sump.
    overflowing 10000L/h out of display.

    And on a tank 650mm wide, max overflow width then 650mm means you will have a water head in your display of between 14 and 18mm in your display.

    enough to suck over any small fish.

    and all that water falling down, will be noisy.

    Will need at least 2 * 50mm diameter downpipes. a 50mm pipe can under gravity handle up to 6000L/h, if the sides are rounded and no obstacles. You will be on the margin.
     
  10. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    Yo Riaan, i dont understand, what sides need to be rounded? and what sort of obstacles could there possibly be?

    lots to consider here. what 'type'f overflow would you guys recommend? simple holes in the base with pipe coming up to water level? or should these pipes be cornered off with glass?

    I was thinking of copying @Ayoob cube, if you have a look at his, he drilled holes in the back pane, then inserted the bulkhead there and an elbow in the DT, does this make sense, if not, please look at Ayoobs SPS Domniated cube, i like the look there, very neat, very smart.
    @RiaanP - Wouldnt 2 x 5000l/h pumps be a bit much? or should i use bigger pumps and then add a control on the plumbing to adjust how much i let though, will allow me also to adjust flow in DT according to how i place my rock/coral and so on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    On your cube, would be about 250L

    at 40 times turnover rate, you are looking at 10000L/h entering the display, that is after taking head height loss into account.

    At 6000L/h entering the display, you only have 24 times turnover rate. Not enough.
     
  12. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    oh ok cool, will have to have 2 holes drilled for overflow then.
    has anyone ever tried a CLS with return pumps only? any feedback on this maybe?

    i want to give it a try, i reckon if it give terrible flow then i will just have to put in a flow pump but the wires hanging over a rimless cube is so ugly
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    A closed loop pulls from the system, and pumps directly back into system. Their is no open tank or container. Just a bunch of PVC piping to and back from the pump. Remember unions and ballvalves to be able to service the pump.

    I did set up a system like that up almost 3 years ago. My plumbing was over a R1000. But ok, that was a lot bigger than your 65cm cube.

    check out PlayStation 3 - Marine Aquariums South Africa
    Post 15 shows the CLS intake.
    Post 64 shows the returns
    Post 72 the action.
    check it out

    It worked, but the flow was just not enough. Would have worked better on a smaller system.

    Incidentally, the display tank at Dorry also have a CLS. Their tank is based on this old setup. Their intake is hidden under one of the rock structures. But with less piping. also they copied my return from sump, although mine comes in from the back, theirs comes in at the bottom. Return looks like a small overflow.

    My problem was the heavier pumps that I had to put on the floor next to the tank. If I had better space behind the tank, I should have added shelves to the stand to support the Reeflow pumps. But access to ballvalves and unions would still be the issue.
     
  14. OD007

    OD007

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    Just my 2c worth.
    The Tunze flow pumps has a function that stops the pump when there’s something in the impeller if I’m not mistaking.
    So it makes it quite nennie safe and a lot easier to install.
     
  15. belindamotion

    belindamotion Google Master

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  16. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    problem with the foam guards is that the block up to easy.
    Actually would be better to run the Vortech without its cover, anemone would be pushed away immediately.
     
  17. NADEEM

    NADEEM Thread Starter

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    does the mp10 magnet work on 10mm glass???
     
  18. Gary Roebuck

    Gary Roebuck

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    check out... VorTech MP10 | EcoTech Marine
    The MP10 is intended for smaller tanks or to supplement flow in larger systems spanning up to 3/8 of an inch of glass and rated at 1,575 gallons of flow per hour, the MP10 is small but powerful.
    Max Tank Thickness: 0.375 inches (9.5 mm)
    Tank Size Range: 2.5-50+ gallons (9.5 – 190 liters)
    Clearance Needed Behind Tank: 2.25 inches (57 mm)
     
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