Side Effects of High CA , ALK and MG

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by ZaxXx, 10 Oct 2011.

  1. ZaxXx

    ZaxXx

    Joined:
    2 May 2010
    Posts:
    938
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Durban
    Are they any negative effects of having high levels of any of these in a reef??
    Mg Ca Alk
    Just curious. . .
    Thanks.
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,771
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
  4. Tony

    Tony

    Joined:
    23 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,093
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    Honeydew, Johannesburg
    Many years ago when I first started using tropic marin bio calcium I was following the dosage instruction on the tub opposed to my tanks consumption. As a result I had a KH of 15 and who knows how high the calcium and magnesium was because the powder provides everything in proportion.

    Needless to say I never had any problems with any of my corals of which I had SPS, LPS and softies. Adriaan who tested my water at the time and introduced me to the all important KH parameter and test kit, nearly poeped himself but all survived. It took a few weeks to get things in line again
     
  5. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    14 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    16,771
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Sandton
    in short, anything in excess can be bad
     
  6. Tony

    Tony

    Joined:
    23 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,093
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    Honeydew, Johannesburg
    Exactly. And to add to my statement, I wouldnt try what happened to me as I'm sure long term, things wouldnt have worked out so lekker
     
  7. Dewald@Dorry

    Dewald@Dorry

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    1,204
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Johannesburg (Alberton)
    SPS and some LPS corals are very sensitive to fluctuating KH or alkalinity. KH to me is one the most important water parameters to keep constant and in check!;)
     
  8. Jeann1

    Jeann1

    Joined:
    21 Dec 2010
    Posts:
    830
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Witbank - Mpumalanga
    Also, i know i saw this somewhere on MASA - if all of them are out, you could have a "snow storm" if i remember correctly
     
  9. Dewald@Dorry

    Dewald@Dorry

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    1,204
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Johannesburg (Alberton)
    Snow storm is caused by very high pH. Once your pH breaks the 13 mark, the tank is in great risk on snow sindrome. I have only witnessed this once and it is not pretty!! That is why manual kalkwasser dosing is so dangerous!
     
  10. Jeann1

    Jeann1

    Joined:
    21 Dec 2010
    Posts:
    830
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Witbank - Mpumalanga
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2011
  11. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,696
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    Ballito, KZN
    If your ph gets anywhere close to 13, everything will be dead.
    I assume you mean alkalinity?
     
  12. Dewald@Dorry

    Dewald@Dorry

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    1,204
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Johannesburg (Alberton)
    Nope, I mean pH.

    Here is some research material pasted. I'm still looking for the article where they go into much more detail in terms of what the pH threshold is etc.

    "Spontaneous precipitation of calcium carbonate occurs when pH levels rapidly climb beyond a certain threshold, which causes crystalline carbonate "snow" to fall out of solution in an essentially insoluble form. The tragedy of the event for a system suffering from this condition is that the reaction must run its course before corrective measures can be taken. The addition of buffers in an attempt to counter the declining alkalinity serves only to feed the precipitous reaction. An aquarist is resigned to watch the spawn of his error to completion, which leaves the buffering
    capacity of the system at a dangerously low level. The stress of the sudden change in water quality can be significantly harmful to marine organisms as well. Water changes and any methods of damage control that insure stability in the environment will be necessary."
     
  13. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    23 Nov 2009
    Posts:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Cape Town
    I personally don't think that anything will survive with a PH of 9.
    PH of 7 is called neutral. Below 7 it's sour and what is the english word for PH above seven?

    It's called basic, isn't it?

    So when the PH rises from 8.2 to 8.3 it is twice as basic as it was at 8.2. From 8 to 9, it would be 10 times more basic!
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2011
  14. chikaboo

    chikaboo

    Joined:
    2 Jan 2009
    Posts:
    4,980
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Newcastle - KZN
    If its not neutral then its acidic or basic.....
     
  15. Singularity

    Singularity Hmmm amper!

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Potch/Centurion/Brooklyn
    -7 acid
    +7 alkaline
     
  16. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    23 Nov 2009
    Posts:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Happy birthday Chika, I just used google to find the word for it.

    The snow storm occurs when there is not enough free carbon dioxide available when the PH goes up and ca/mg are high. Ca and Mg will fall out and creates the snow. Ca and Mg will reach a saturation point. As soon the PH climbs up, Ca and Mg will fall out and takes the carbonate hardeners with it. The snow, Mg and Ca, is then calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. These two will not get back into solution. Lost for ever!
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2011
  17. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    789
    Location:
    Cape Town
    The most alkaline you get is 14. A pH of 13 is extremely caustic and will burn flesh. At that pH a snow storm will be the least of your worries.
     
  18. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    6 May 2007
    Posts:
    3,149
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Bracken
    Snowstorm = cal or alk being too high. Forms caco3, and massive drop in both params, as once its precipitated, no longer avail. Their max values in useable state determined by some other params, especially Mg.
     
  19. Alan

    Alan Admin MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    4 May 2007
    Posts:
    5,974
    Likes Received:
    119
    Location:
    KZN
    You will never get sea water to that kind of PH, remember the PH scale is logorithmic, so a PH of 8 is 10X more alkaline than a PH of 7 and a PH of 9 is 100x more alkaline than 7. So to get to a ph of 13 you are going to be 10 000x more alkaline than a PH of 8, if my maths is correct. Never happen. it has more to do with the saturation of ALK and CA, your water can only hold so many of these ions before they precipitate out of the solution.
     
  20. Tony

    Tony

    Joined:
    23 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,093
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    Honeydew, Johannesburg
    High p.H (meaning pondus hydrogeni or the count of hydrogen) is either called alkaline of caustic
     
  21. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

    Joined:
    23 Nov 2009
    Posts:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Cape Town
    And if my maths are correct it is 100.000 x more alkaline than PH 8!
    It sounds absolutely unbelievable!
    9 is 10x more alkaline than 8
    10 is 100x more alkaline than 8
    11 is 1.000x more alkaline than 8
    12 is 10.000x more alkaline than 8
    13 is 100.000x more alkaline than 8
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Side Effects High Forum Date
Side effects of cheap supplements General Discussions and Advice 26 Nov 2013
[wtd] Mp10 wetside Wanted 25 Oct 2016
[wtd] Vortech MP40 dry side Wanted 21 Oct 2016
Consider a pond, to survive power cuts Power cuts 21 Aug 2016
[wtd] Jabao WP40 or WP25 wetside Wanted 19 Aug 2016
[wtd] MP40 wet side Wanted 18 Aug 2016
[wtd] Mp 40 wet side Wanted 30 Jun 2016