Sick fish :(

Rob13

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Hi guys,

I have a 400L system that has been up and running since April but have only put livestock in from about the middle of August. I did not use any live rock and used Seachem's Seed every week for a good few months and whenever adding new fish. Filtration includes a skimmer and loads of matrix (ammonia is at 0 and nitrates are at 1).

I currently have 2 TMC clowns, a fairy wrasse, yellow eye kole tang, yellow tang, some inverts and some green star polyps in the display.

I know I may have jumped the gun (having followed the advice of the LFS) and added a flame angel two Fridays ago. That being said, the flame angel definitely brought a disease into the tank and died 5 days later and today I lost my midas blenny. I genuinely hate losing livestock and am reading myself in circles trying to find a solution.

The fish have been scratching and what I originally though was ick could be marine velvet (the yellow tang has some spots on his fins only (nothing on the body) but the blenny had a whitish coat over his body that almost made him look like his skin was peeling). I have been using Seachem's vitality, MetroPlex and Focus every day for 3 days now and the fish do not seem to be getting any better.

I know that time is of the essence and I read several posts in recent weeks regarding res-q-med... Does anyone have any idea if res-q-med works on velvet as well as ick?

Sorry about the long post, just wanted to give us much info as possible...
 

Newbiejb

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Hi sorry to hear about your loss Resqmed is only for parasitic infection so im not sure if velvet is parasitic or bacterial hope this help.
 

NJH

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Velvet and Ich have similar life cycles. So it could work. Velvet kills much quicker than Ich.
 

Rob13

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The Kole tang was dead this morning (after showing almost no signs of either ich or velvet) so I am at a loss of what to do now... I will try and get some res-q-med but am thinking that a two foot hospital tank may be the only way to go if I can find some spare cash :(

Anyone know if any sponsors sell entire hospital/quarantine tank setups?
 

Dexter

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I think your best bet is to catch all the fish and put them in qt as soon as possible. Dont mess around and go straight for copper. If you choose this option you will need a copper test aswell. Good luck.
 

Rob13

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try probio spot and velvet it's very good only quite expensive
Where can I get this from?

Thanks for the offer @Dexter!

I managed to get hold of a 2 foot tank earlier today... It was nearly impossible getting the wrasse out without taking the entire tank apart but I managed to get all fish into qt and have dosed my first bit of cupramine. They are not looking too good but I seriously hope that they can pull through...

Could I please ask for some input on the qt setup?
1) I have used a HOB filter with only sponge inside (should I use or add anything else?);
2) Added pieces of PVC for fish to hide in;
3) Added a heater;
4) Added an airstone;
5) I intend doing about a 5-10% WC every second day (just before dosing the cupramine).

Does this sound about right?
 
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Rob13

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@RiaanP very interesting read! May implore this method when adding new fish from now on...
Would you still use this method for velvet? I think I have definitely confirmed that what I am dealing with is velvet...
 
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RiaanP

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Yes I would still use the bucket method
Velvet and WS got very similar life cycles.
Marine Velvet Disease

Interesting parts.
There are several very important things to remember when treating this disease:

Stressed fish are much more likely to develop the disease.

This disease is highly contagious.

The key to treating this disease is early detection and prompt treatment.

Most fish that show the severe skin form are probably too sick to respond to treatment.

Only the free-swimming dinoflagellate form of the organism (the dinospore) is susceptible to treatment.

Properly sized UV sterilizers will also kill the dinospores.

The encysted form is not susceptible to any treatment.
 

RiaanP

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more info on Velvet

Marine Velvet/Amyloodinium ocellatum: A Discussion of this Disease and its Available Treatment Options - Reefkeeping.com

I'm not sure on the number of days per phase during the life cycle of velvet. But it is faster than WS. If anybody got that info, please pass it on.

Within the freshwater dip paragraph, the author mentions moving the fish every 3 days. That would indicate to me that the cyst phase would be 4 or more. So he moves the fish before the next batch of cyst hatch.

That is the main idea with bucket method. It is extremely difficult to treat an infected fish in an infected environment. So why not get rid of the infected environment.
 

RiaanP

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even more info
Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) | UltimateReef.Com

LIFECYCLE
This parasite has a life cycle that has four stages (Figure 3).

When the parasite is on the fish it is called the trophont. The trophont sits on the skin’s surface and puts out small rhyzoids (root-like structures) into the skin of the host where it absorbs nutrients directly from the fishes’ skin. The trophont is quite small, being around 10 to 15µm in diameter when it settles on the skin, but growing to around 80µm as it matures. Depending on the temperature and strain of the parasite this stage can be completed in as little as 12 hours or as long as 4 days.

Once the parasite has built up its energy reserve sufficiently it drops off the host to form the tomont. The tomont lands on the sediment and begins to divide. After 48 to 96 hours (although it can take up to 20+ days) the tomont contains around 200 dinospores, increasing in size to around 1 mm. It then ruptures and releases the flagellated dinospores, which move upwards, attracted by light, and are ready to infect a fish. Dinospores can remain infective for up to 15 days, much longer than marine white spot, the disease it is most often confused with.

Although the life cycle is completed in 4 days on average, one problem with Amyloodinium ocellatum is that it can persist in the tank for a long period because both tomonts and dinospores can use photosynthesis as a means of obtaining nutrients. Thus the parasite is able to survive for long periods in tanks without a suitable host - we will discuss the implications of this later.
minimum time for tomont is 48 hours. This would be the maximum time before you need to move the fish.

Giving the fish a freshwater dip is effective for velvet. Although in most of these articles the effectiveness of FW dip against WS is questioned. If velvet, it will at least help the fish as a lot of the parasites will drop off.

Your display needs to be without fish for 20 + 15 days minimum. 20 is the longest tomonts can take to hatch. 15 the longest the free swimming parasites can last without finding a hosts. I would still go for 6 weeks without fish minimum. WS tomonts can take up to 28 days to hatch in extreme cases. Plus 2 maximum to find a host.
 

Juan27

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This happened to me with a flame as well, lost most of my stock and the flame was the last fish I was adding. They're a bit like my "unicorn" - from go in 60 seconds. Something always goes wrong when I add one to the tank.
I've had this happen twice already when I had my fish only aquarium.
Once with a box fish and once with a Harlequin Tusk.
Both of them would have been my last addition
 

Rob13

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Thanks for the input guys... Sadly I woke up this morning and all 4 the remaining fish in qt had died... I think catching them was a bit stressful and seeing clear signs of velvet meant exactly what was stated above: "Most fish that show the severe skin form are probably too sick to respond to treatment".

I am really upset and will have to keep reading and try and lift my spirits to remind myself why I started this hobby and why I should keep going...

Your display needs to be without fish for 20 + 15 days minimum. 20 is the longest tomonts can take to hatch. 15 the longest the free swimming parasites can last without finding a hosts. I would still go for 6 weeks without fish minimum.
The display still has some green star polyps, 3 shrimp and 3 snails in it... Should I leave everything up and running and hopefully have a display clear of velvet if I left it standing for 8 weeks now?

Thanks @RiaanP...
 
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Jinx

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Bad news dude....not easy to pickup from where you are now.Just keep on going.You have a qt now so from now on you should do the right think to qt before introducing any stock.I also learned the hard way.

Believe me I plan new stock introductions....plan the species you want to keep setup the qt system and add a nice canister filter to it and let it run to build up bacteria,then set off and stock up slowly again.
 

RiaanP

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The display still has some green star polyps, 3 shrimp and 3 snails in it...
You can leave corals and inverts in the display. Just remember to feed the inverts a little bit. Plus some coral snow or other suitable food for the corals.
 

Rob13

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plan the species you want to keep setup the qt system and add a nice canister filter to it and let it run to build up bacteria
Thanks @Jinx! Yeah will have to start again and hopefully get my spirits up...
@RiaanP would some brine shrimp every second/third day be sufficient for the shrimp? Given that there are only some star polyps in there would coral food still be necessary?
 
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