Seachem Reef Fusion question

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by Oopkrane, 12 Feb 2014.

  1. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane

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    Hi.
    Been using Seachem Reef fusion 1 & 2 for a while now and very happy with ease of use and results. Recently I purchased a new set of bottles and I noticed something strange.
    When I add the reef fusion 2 (carbonate alkalinity) the product seems to make something that looks like small solid balls that sink to the bottom in the water, it also turns the water white for a short while, but this is normal. After a while the 'balls' seem to disappear. My kH has always been 10.5 and I dose fusion 1 & 2, 5ml daily for my 135L (total water volume excl substrate & LR) and never had issues. I also wait a couple of minutes between dosing each one. Today I noticed bleaching on my birds nest and tested kH with salifert kit. Measured 8.5.
    So my questions are:
    Could the low kH have caused the bleaching?
    Could the reef fusion 2 have expired and thus not working as it should?

    I don't see any expiry date on the reef fusion bottles.

    What did I change recently on system:
    Introduced orca bio cubes (250ml) one week ago.
    Reduced liquid carbon dosing (NOPOx).

    Would appreciate your comments.
    Thanks!

    PS I introduced the solid carbon dosing due to issues I have with red cotton wool algea.
     
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  3. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Abiotic precipitation of calciumcarbonate. Ie the additions have pushed your params like alk and ca and pH to the point where the water cannot hold any more ca dissolved ions, so they fall out of solution.
    Referred to as a snow storm.... Google it. Kh of 10.5 is at the high end, pH?
    You,ll find your ca levels most likely dropped along with kh.
    Has the bleaching happened post snowstorm or pre?
     
  4. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane Thread Starter

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    Hi Ivan.
    Snow storm is limited to a small area of the sump and never reaches the DT. Been doing this for about a month now and the bleaching happned yesterday. pH is 7.8, but I have never adjusted my pH, always monitor kH and never had issues. Calcium levels are constant at 450 - 500.
    FYI when I was still using Bicarb to adjust kH it used to be around 12 and corals were doing great.
    Thanks for your response and input!
     
  5. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Definitely abiotic precipitation, causing a drop in alk, as the precipitate is nothing more than calcium and carbonate.
    When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
    Aquarium Chemistry: The Chemical and Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

    A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

    Also consider that calcium and carbonates/bicarbonate sollubility decrease with temp and considering the time of year and weather we've been having.....
    Yes.. Corals would appear "happy," yet with enough sucessive mini precipitations dropping available bicarbonates.... Corals will stress, bleach.. Freak out.... Its hardly the level it is at, more a case of the rapid change of the level....
    When running Ca and Alk at the maximum end of acceptability and beyond, your mg levels are vital. It shoild be around 3 x your Ca level..... Eish!
    Reality though, NO benefit in running such high levels. Scientific evidence shows that increased alk does increase coral growth rate, but this is reference to levels above nsw (about 7dkh), but does reach a plateau at around 9 dkh.
    Increased Ca above 380 does however not increase growth rates.
    Also worth considering is that there is a link between nutrient levels and alk and reported bleaching... Not scientifically documented specifically, but enough anecdotal evidence... Have you been tracking your PO4 over time....?
    There is a reason nsw parameters are what they are...
     
    Last edited: 13 Feb 2014
  6. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane Thread Starter

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    Hi Ivan.
    You know your chemistry! I will read those articles over lunchtime.
    So to summarize: dKh between 7 and 9 is good. Ca between 380 and 400. No need to push higher.
    I did a 10% water change yesterday and will do another 10% tomorrow.
    Will test for dKh and Ca again tonight.
    I have never tested PO4. Will try to get a kit.
    BTW, the birds nest looks even worse today. I have another birdsnest that has no visible impact, only the one.
     
  7. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Don't know so much about knowing my chemistry..... Just have a vague idea as to why things happen the way they do ;)
    dkh of 7-9 good yes.... pick a value and keep it there is more important than the actual value, as long as actual value is in the range of acceptability.
    Ca 380 - 400, although I would push this to 400 to 420, just to have a bit of margin for error.

    2 x 10% water changes in rapid succession is hardly going to help un-stress the coral, but it wont doo much harm either.

    Don't bother wasting money on a PO4 test kit, they are all unreliable, open to interpretation.... :cursing::ack2:
    Rather save up for an electronic one..... Or invest the money in good GFH / GFO.
     
  8. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane Thread Starter

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    Very interesting articles. What I have done lately was increase the calcium dosage (fusion 1) to 8ml and kept carbonate dose (fusion 2) at 5ml. This was to boost ca to above 450 as I was told this is a good level for coral skeletons. I think this might be what caused the imbalance. What I should be doing is keeping the dosage of 1 & 2 the same and for the next two days reduce to lets say 4ml of each. I will try this and keep you posted.
     
  9. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Consider doing nothing...
    Initially, I would up the pH with something like reef buffer by Seachem, as this would also increase your pH.
    When saying your pH is 7.8, when was this measured? Unless running a reverse light cycle in a sump with macro algae or ATS, pH is unlikely to be stable throughout a day. 7.8 is a bit on the low end of acceptable, which also explains why snowstorm took so long to become evident. If it was measured in the morning, then not too much of a concern, BUT I would still raise it....
    Monitor KH and Ca and pH and determine consumption rate of ca and alk and then dose accordingly to maintain alk and Ca.

    Whoever told you about the Calcium should please elaborate on such a statement..... or consider contributing some frags in lieu of now lost seritopa..... ;)

    Whenever someone gives you advice, especially some LFS'es ...... research before you listen.... The more havoc they cause in your tank, the more they can sell you.....
     
  10. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane Thread Starter

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    Thanks. I have seachem reef buffer and I will slowly try to raise the pH. Luckily I have a good quality digital pH meter that i can calibrate so I know this is correct. I am actually running a reverse light schedule with macro algea in my sump. Should take some photographs and post them. Do reefers actually monitor and buffer pH? My understanding is that kH and Ca are the most important factors, followed by Mg and other minor trace elements. pH of 7.8 was measured in evening.
     
  11. Oopkrane

    Oopkrane Thread Starter

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  12. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    7.8 is a bit low, especially if measured in evening.
    It is not a parameter which has to be monitored constantly, as once it is stable and the aquarist has a grip on his system. Nonetheless, should be checked at least weekly.
    With stable alk, oxygenated water, sufficient air flow in aquarium location and a none excessive bioload, pH should be relatively stable.
    If running a calcium reactor, it should definitely be monitored.
     
  13. Snoek

    Snoek

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    I had my Ca at 480 a month ago and like Irie Ivan is saying there is no benefit having it that high. Currently its at 420 and KH is at 8.1 and my sps are growing like mad. I would however consider changing to a powder form of supplements as it will be better value in the long run. There is nothing wrong with Fusion 1 and 2 but in the long run the Seachem powder supplements will save you substantially at the till.
     
  14. mandarinman

    mandarinman

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    If you are dosing kh dose to prevent precipitation there are a few things to consider. Mg must be 3 times calcium. When adding kh add it slowly into a highly agitated area of water to ensure dissipation. A safety measure is to dilute kh in a cup of ro before dripping into tank.
     
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