Return pump for 800 liter system?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Waterflow' started by Louis Scheepers, 19 Oct 2010.

  1. Louis Scheepers

    Louis Scheepers

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    What size (how many liters per hour) return pump should I use on my planned system? DT will be 150(l)x75(w)x60(h) and the sump will be 120(l)x65(w)x45(h). I will use a dsb, size will be 70x65.

    Will a 3000 Tunze do the job, or do I need more flow? Riaan said that he felt that 3000 over his DSB was a bit on the low side?
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2010
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  3. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    dude a 3000lph pump is suffiecient, IMO, its also how you get the flow to move over your DSB as in glass heights either side of chamber, how deep down the dsb is in the chamber etc that will allow a more streamlined linear flow over the sand bed.. (not sure if im being clear here).

    i had an OR3500 running my 5ft and it was perfect
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip, 3000 is a bit too low.
    It depends on how deep is your DSB (front to back). Mine at 600mm felt too slow.

    And you must take flow lost due to head height and elbows into account.

    Flow should be 3 to 5 times turnover over the DSB. We want a certain rate to prevent too mush settlement on the DSB, and slow enough for heavier particles to do sink down and be consumed.
    So in theory you need 2400 to 4000L/h for your 800L system (ignoring head height). But now I think that this theory must be re-visited. The length of the DSB got nothing to do with the flow rate as measured with the flow direction over DSB chamber.
    But the flow rate is directly related to the width of the DSB as measured from front to back or across the flow direction.

    We want the water to move at a certain water speed.

    Put this in another comparison.
    You move 100L in 5 minutes in a 100mm wide gutter over a certain point.
    Now you increase the gutter to 200mm. If you still move 100L in 5 minutes, your flow rate across the point will be slower. To have the same flow, you need to double up on the amount of water that you move.

    The result is that when you compare two different DSB's, the first at 300mm wide and the second at 600mm, then the old advice of 3 to 5 times your display turnover should now be changed to 6 to 10 times turnover.

    My display is about 750L. And I used a 3000L/h pump. Ignoring head height, that is 4 times turnover. My sump is 600mm across. Got better results when I used 2 pumps of 3000L/h.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2010
  5. Louis Scheepers

    Louis Scheepers Thread Starter

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    Thanx Les and Riaan. The problem if you go over 3000lph is that the wattage goes up a lot. The Reef Octopus 5000 is an option but so expensive (I have 2nd dibs on one, so still waiting to hear from the guy), the Sicce is also a option and a lot cheaper, but I have read that these pumps don't last very long?
     
  6. jaybeepee

    jaybeepee

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    what about adding a powerhead to add flow to the dsb only?

     
  7. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    riaan i see your point but the flip side of the coin is more pumps (and sometimes larger pumps) = noise for little extra benefit.. maintenence will always come into play aswell..
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip, extra big pump, extra wattage...

    Can use a powerhead to pump water from return chamber directly back to skimmer. But then you end up destroying half of the good stuff the DSB releases back into the water. Critters spawning, etc...

    This is why I run that other thread a couple of weeks back on what return pumps can be used that is above 3000l/h and have the least hunger for wattage.

    I got a Dophin P-3000 at 43 watt. If I can get another, or know where to get it. That will be what I suggest. Else it is the Sicce at 4800L/h and 67Watt.
     
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  9. Louis Scheepers

    Louis Scheepers Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the responses so far! I would appreciate it if people with the same size systems with dsb's can comment on what size return pump they are using!
     
  10. vatso

    vatso

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    My 900Lt system I run Hailea HX-6540 Pump

    Model: HX-6540

    Power: 100W

    Voltage: 110-120/220-240V

    Frequency: 50/60Hz

    Flow: 2880L/H

    Max Jet: 3.1M

    Outlet Diameter: ø20.0mm

    Weight: 3.3kg

    Size: 185x150x180mm
     
  11. Singularity

    Singularity Hmmm amper!

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    100w for a 2880 lph pump seems a bit much ?
    Tunze specs
    Recirculation pump Silence
    (1073.040)
    Pumping capacity: 3,000 l/h (792 USgal./h).
    Energy consumption: 42 W.
    Pumping head: 3 m (118.1 in.).
    Voltage / frequency: 230 V / 50 Hz (115 V / 60 Hz).
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2010
  12. SIMS

    SIMS

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    I have one of these if you need
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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  14. SIMS

    SIMS

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    agree 100%
     
  15. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    I'm running a AM OR3500 on my 2000x700x700mm DT.
    With the head loss, I'm probably getting a flow rate of 3000lph.

    Seems to be about right, although not sure how one actually judges the effectiveness, other than to say my system seems to be going in the right direction given my water parameters and the health of the tank inhabitants.
     
  16. Seabass

    Seabass

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    Are these Tunze pumps dead silent and any good?

     
  17. Tim S

    Tim S

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    Hi chaps,

    On the return pump topic, myne packed up the weekend and urgently need to find another one. One problem I found is that the kalk in the top-up water cakes inside the pump causing it run slower until it stops. Does anyone have advice on how to avoid this?
     
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Then you doing something wrong. The kalk in the top up should be dissolved. You should only add the clear saturated water in the top part of kalkwasser stirrer to your system. Never the white cloud. So you should not have kalk build up issues in your return chamber.
     
  19. Redhawk10

    Redhawk10

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    I used a Reef Octopus HY-5000W for my 700l tank. 5200L/h 60w 3.3M Head. worked great.
     
  20. Tim S

    Tim S

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    Hi Redhawk10, can you let me know where you got and price please. Looking for something like this.
     
  21. Redhawk10

    Redhawk10

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    Hi Tim S i sent you a pm
     
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