Reef classes

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Brain fart, inspired by Nemos Janitor...
Reef meets from an outsiders perspective seems like a carbon dosing, need for social acceptance, tank and equipment staring, bragging, frag swapping, photo posting event...
Nothing wrong with that, for those so inclined.
However, in scanning through the meet threads, reference to actual knowlege gained is minimal....
Misinformation, misconception and general confusion seems to reign with even the most basic of principles, or understamding thereof...

Have been toying with the idea for a few years, and still am....
Informative, reefkeeping 101 style meetings.. Dare I say it, almost classroom style..
Q&A sessions.. Predetermined topics..
Am I deluded in thinking some peoe actually want to gain an overstanding in whats actually going on in their systems?
Yes we have MASA, or should I say we are MASA, but it gets pretty busy here detracting from the learning experience... Fun nonetheless, but there is another side, which facilitates more fun when we know what we are doing and why.
We have some clever people and some knowledgeable ones too, who are more than willing to donate some time to do a talk and Q&A session.

Just a thought...
 
I would be keen.
 
I agree and disagree with your statement Irie , the issue is getting people there, our jhb people are generally the same people joining and yes it's social but we do discuss topics current on masa. The problem is that some people think the following:
Too good for a meeting
Know everything and don't need to learn
To scared to find out what they do and have is wrong and don't want the embarrassment, this by the way happens way too much here anyway

The list goes on, but on the other hand A structured course would be cool, but how does one get past a difference of opinion? Cubes aren't for all neither are pellets, do we delve into the mad science of reef keeping? Do people want to know or just want a cookie cutter system that is good to look at with no fuss?
Then we have to contend with lfs's, will they now see this as a threat, do we invite them?

I am all for putting a training guide for reefing in sa but our biggest problem: EGO
 
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I have been tutouring people via e-mail and whatsapp (more recently) for years. I find it more specific to converse one on one to award detailed attention to each case it does interferre with my family life a bit so I have a rule that I will answer at my soonest convienience.
 
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@regis and @MistaOrange.... I will go with the not.. Perhaps my ego prevents me from attending as Dallas said. Or my classic antisocial behaviour syndrome.
As mentioned, social gatherings for those so inclined ;)
Its a great thing to do, keep doing it.
Having been in the hobby and trolling the forums for longer than I care to remember, I am well aware hiw different opinions and methodologies can spark debate and how ego can prevent progress..
Reefkeeping 101 style "classes" are not a product pushing, lfs alterior motive, or room for a pissing contest.
There are things called facts, science, chemistry, biology... Facts, hardly open to a difference of opinion I would think..
If I may illustrate: Most hobbyists know to keep their pH at 8.3ish, but if we were to ask why or even simpler, what is pH, how many can answer without googling or searching the forum... Fair enough and good enough for some to be close to the info, at hand, a few keystrokes, but not in head.
Another reality that I am well aware of, is that most simply dont care... And will carry on looking through a refractometer and carry on saying their salinity is 1024, yes, I left out the . on purpose.
There is another reality, and that is that knowledge empowers, and a few actually want to be empowered, for the sake of their livestock, their egos and their wallets.
Another reality, these classes are happening already, whiteboards, whiteboard markers, Q&A, practical analogies, but up to now have been by invitation only...
Guess the intention of this thread was to extend the invitation more than anything..
To get people to pitch, quite frankly, there are enough who are already pitching, but we have decided to invite so that more can grace us with their presence, or not.
 
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Yes Leslie, in part thats what has brought this on, an offshoot from watsapp tutoring, a realization that there are those who want to know more, and the interference with family and work...
 
I am keen to learn and would like to attend. Also have a bit of an anti-social personality...too many people with no specific agenda leaving only small talk makes me nervous.

Specific discussion classroom style would be great.
 
Am I deluded in thinking some peoe

Dunno, where DID your mind wonder off to?? :tt2:

Most hobbyists know to keep their pH at 8.3ish, but if we were to ask why or even simpler, what is pH , how many can answer without googling or searching the forum... Fair enough and good enough for some to be close to the info, at hand, a few keystrokes, but not in head. Another reality that I am well aware of, is that most simply dont care... And will carry on looking through a refractometer and carry on saying their salinity is 1024, yes, I left out the . on purpose.

That is definitely me you referring to as I can still not get this chemical things right. Probably the fact that I never paid any attention in chemistry class as myself and the Lesb..n teacher did not see eye to eye, and it still urks me big time.
I do tests because I have to, not because I know how to. I change water only when I see coral suffering, not because I know what is wrong.
I bought a fancy doser and added Iodene, Strontium and Magnesium, because I read somewhere that this is the stuff that makes coral grow, not because I really know why.
I would like to say that my coral grew over the past few years, but unfortunately cannot say it, as I would lie, hence me always buying big pieces of coral as I have never experienced coral growth.

I hate not knowing the "Why" and "How's" in life, especially when it becomes part of my love and passion. :(

Informative, reefkeeping 101 style meetings.. Dare I say it, almost classroom style

Best you move to our side of the world, we will keep you busy for a long time.:biggrin: And you can fish here too.. ;)

P.S.
In our City I am probably the most experienced reefer wrt Coral, fish etc, and coming from myself, I can assure you my tanks are more over based on luck (sometimes) than anything else, now concider the rest of the hobbyists here if they know less than me. When they ask me for advise, I give them advise according to my experience (no one to tutor us here) and not of actual facts and the right knowledge.

We need to get experienced reefers in our area. We have 05 "Pet Shops" in our area, and no one deals with the marine side of it... :(
 
Lovely reply Mr. Koekemoer!
Case in point.
consider is spelt with an s, not a c by the way.... Was your English teacher a lesb? too?:lol: Don't worry, I had to google it.....
My fiancé drives an i10, we live in the farmlands, roads are bumpy and I type on my phone mostly.....

Think Dallas mentioned that lfs might see it as a threat....

Intention to educate, long term sustained sales vs. quick buck.... they want to see that as a threat.... whatever. Some have learnt to refer their customers to me, as I'll direct them to buy the right thing...for their system! You lose the sale of a Moorish Idol and gain the sale of a refractometer... Really not my problem that the Moorish Idol came into your store.

Anyways, Sean, would love to come visit, catch fish, perhaps we could have a classroom on board....
 
Tomato, Tamato, who gives a....lol (spell checker missed that one)

Anyways, Sean, would love to come visit, catch fish, perhaps we could have a classroom on board

Anytime. Then you can sommer give class at my house, in the form of setting up the new display tank so everyone can see how to do it properly. (See that as a down payment to free meals and boarding as well as good fishing trips, ohh, and good company..lol)

Serious note. After being a member here since 2007, it becomes "normal" to skip a lot of threads as mostly, all revolves around the same questions and answers, yet not a lot "teaches" ... (see me getting a sign now)

I sooo wanna get this chemistry thing right. I went back onto my thread yesterday and found this- I am still not better off:
Post 330:

Man, I am battling with this Alkalinity thing, I do not understand it, cause... If I up my alk, my ph and calcium levels go up- right??? (wrong??)

So dkh suppose to be close to 09??? I test p.p.m- how do I convert it to dkh???

Then for the million dollar question- Inside the Kalkwasser- only the bottle of carb (powdery stuff) goes in???? Water from my topup runs through the kalkwasser into the sump. Kalkwasser is connected to a timer that comes on every 03 hours to mix the carb inside the kalkwasser?

Shit , so many questions, I just confused myself.....
Post 331:

Ok, i walked around the house to get the confusion out of my head.

I know Andrew explaine it to me -the kalkwasser thing- but I am still mixed up. What is the main purpose for the kalkwasser. If my Calcium and ph and what not levels test right, is there still a need for the kalkwasser????

If connected, will it in some way help with the alcalinity- again, shit , if only I left the girls alone and paid more attention in the science class many moons back.

Please help with this confusion!!!!!!!
Answer from @Hill at the time:

Originally Posted by sean_koekemoer
Man, I am battling with this Alkalinity thing, I do not understand it, cause... If I up my alk, my ph and calcium levels go up- right??? (wrong??) Depends on what you dose. Simply adding bicarb (robertsons bicab of soda) will only increase ALK. Dosing Kalk will increase both.

So dkh suppose to be close to 09??? I test p.p.m- how do I convert it to dkh??? 9 to 10 is ideal, but NSW is about 6. So any where between 6 and 10 is ok. Some even run at 12 but I feel that is way too high. I am trying to get mine to 9. To convert to dKH divide by 17.8.

Then for the million dollar question- Inside the Kalkwasser- only the bottle of carb (powdery stuff) goes in???? Water from my topup runs through the kalkwasser into the sump. Kalkwasser is connected to a timer that comes on every 03 hours to mix the carb inside the kalkwasser? The stirring action must run intermittently. I plan on running mine only once a day. You need the slurry to settle so only the clear solution is added to the tank. I will be running mine off 2 timers and an auto top up. Timer 1 will stir the kalk early moring once timer 2 has switched off. Timer 2 will be set to run over night in conjunction with the auto topup. So that only the clear solution will be added over night. Might even have timer 2 come on for short periods of time every hout to add Kalk solution slowly. To better stabilize PH during night time.

Shit , so many questions, I just confused myself.....
Originally Posted by sean_koekemoer
Ok, i walked around the house to get the confusion out of my head.

I know Andrew explaine it to me -the kalkwasser thing- but I am still mixed up. What is the main purpose for the kalkwasser. If my Calcium and ph and what not levels test right, is there still a need for the kalkwasser???? Kalkwasser adds Calcium and Alkalinity. It is a two part supplement. It seems because you have mostly softies at the moment, your tank is using more Alkalinity than Calcium. Coraline Algae growth consumes large volumes of Alkalinity. Therefor by continuously adding Kalk to up Alkalinity will cause calcium to become elevated above the norm. I suggest slowing or stopping the kalk reactor for a while until Calcium drops to around 400ppm. the continue. Till then add alkalinity by dosing Bicarbonate. Robertsons bicarbonate of Soda.

If connected, will it in some way help with the alcalinity- again, shit , if only I left the girls alone and paid more attention in the science class many moons back. It would but it will eventually push your Calcium overboard. Rather do as I mentioned above until calcium drops.

Please help with this confusion!!!!!!!
So you can see, even now I am confused. It is as if there is a "block" in my brain when it comes to this type of stuff

And this was the response from @millepora at the time (Must add that he tried to explain it to me over the phone on a number of calls:

“Inside the kalkstirrer I have to pour the contnts of the bottle labelled "Calcium Hydroxide AR” No need to add the entire contents of the bottle of Kalkwasser. I’d add about 4 or 5 heaped table spoons. Although I would not run the Kalkwasser reactor the way Hill described, it is perfectly fine to do it that way. There are many different ways to do something. My method of using a Kalkwasser Reactor is the more simplistic method of continues running. My auto top up feeds my Kalk Reactor day and night to replace all evaporated water. I have the reactors circulation pump on a timer to come on for one minute every three hours. The reasion for this is not to be careful not to dose the slurry. (really not a train smash if some slurry gets added) In any case, when the pump comes on the slurry is only circulated in the bottom half of the reactor. It stays clear at the top even with the pump on. The main reasion is if you run the circulation pump for a few minutes it will warm/heat up a little. Kalkwasser will react to the heat and you will get deposits forming on the impeller, which will eventually cause the pump to jam/seize. A one minute mix of the settled slurry every two or three hours should cause no harm to the pump while still maintaining a super saturated level of calcium in the reactor. (The clear part) Well that’s the way I do it, I seam to have pretty good results using this method. Ps. Glad the coral arrive ok. Was the packaging ok?
 
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I read all of that Sean... and now I am confused too.:eek:

Will gladly come teach, but can only do that when I myself understand the molecular properties of water.....

Gotta get my ass up there yes... Gatvol of snoek down this side....

Setting up a display tank... As long as I don't have to carry rocks around... Dis Bleddie groot klippe wat jy gebruik...
 
I don't know how you can comment on reef meet knowledge sharing seeing as you've attended zero.
Far more is often learned in an informal chat that having info forced onto you in a classroom situation.
 
I was a lecturer at varsity for my final year. I always found that interaction between all parties was a sound a good way of sharing knowledge between students, it keeps everyone at the same level, people feel more at ease and no one feels like they might ask "silly" questions. I love informal meets, you get to know others and they share their experiences with you.
 
Class room would not work for me as I have the attention span of a rock:lol: I would love too attend reef meets, chat, eat and drink a beer. I just live to far out!!!!!! I hardly ever get to CT anymore.

What about home schooling. Get modules, lets say 1-10 and meet for exams and a braai every term or two.
 
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