Questions about reducing NO3 media/methods

Discussion in 'Advanced Topics' started by Gif_Hasie, 8 May 2017.

  1. Gif_Hasie

    Gif_Hasie

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    Hi Guys

    Busy doing some research and got a bit stuck on how to reduce the nitrates in the sump. As always, there seem to be some conflicting reports/views on certain methods/media to use in a reef tank when trying to reduce nitrate levels, so wanted hear if other peoples opinions on this.

    Below is a list of ones I am keen on trying to do, but have some questions concerns:

    1) Algae Scrubber

    Seem the one big problem is that over time your tank will crash due to the popping up of algae due to accumulation of spores over time. So this method seems to be doomed to use.

    2) Deep Sand Bed

    I wanted to initially use this, but it seems you also have to have other critters in the DSB to make it effective, so not very keen on that. Or can you use a DSB in the sump only to reduce nitrates?

    3) MarinePure block

    At this stage, I am very keen to use this, as my sump design I can achieve very slow flow through the sump. However, it seems this media leeches some kind of aluminium into your water column. At this stage, people only report that it affects their leather corals, however, I am sure a water change would help?

    4) Seachem Pond

    The same principle as the MarinePure block, although much more expensive. Anybody have used this with success, i.e. very low flow over a pile of it in your sump?

    Thank you

    Regards
     
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  3. Dexter

    Dexter

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    I cant comment on the ways you mentioned above but what worked for me in the past were carbon dosing, either being vinager, vodka, etc....
    also tried biocubes before which worked wonders.
    currently im trying out pellett reactor. just started that up so hopefully that will take the effort away of dosing carbon with syringe every morning.
     
  4. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    5) Regular Water changes :tt2:

    Some other options include sulfur denitrators where you create anaerobic zone for bacteria to consume nitrates, but you will need an ORP controller to run it properly.
     
  5. Dexter

    Dexter

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    i looked into this aswell for a bit, but it looks complicated. only information i could get on the net was to build your own reactor. not sure if they being sold commercialy.
     
  6. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    You can use an old Carx reactor (I did, just redid the plumbing on circulation pump to be straight), or Aquamedic I think makes a denitrator.
     
  7. Dexter

    Dexter

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    yes they do but they very expensive
     
  8. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    It is a bit complicated while it is cycling, need to test for nitrite and nitrate constantly on outflow while it is cycling. And the bacterial biomass builds up, so need thick-ish pipes out.
     
  9. hotdog83

    hotdog83 Clone Fish Moderator

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    But the big positive for me (aside from being cheaper on a big system than most other methods) on the sulfur denitrator is that once it is dialed in and cycled, you can pretty much forget about it, just have to clean out the bacterial biomass once a year.
     
  10. Dexter

    Dexter

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    maybe on my next project i need to speak to @hotdog83 ;)
     
  11. r0ckf1re

    r0ckf1re

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    Where can the marine pure block be sourced from?
     
  12. Dexter

    Dexter

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    Jungle aquatics use to have them. Not sure if they still stock it. Or pet habitat
     
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  13. jairus1

    jairus1

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    Liquid carbon dosing, simple, cheap and extremely effective. I use a vinegar/glucose mix and getting zero nitrates is a breeze
     
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  14. madmatt

    madmatt

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    What's your formula
     
  15. jairus1

    jairus1

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    mixing formula is 75g/1L white vinegar. What is you current nitrate reading at
     
  16. jairus1

    jairus1

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Belgian Anthias

    Belgian Anthias

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    In most cases nitrates build up because of a shortness of usable sulphur, despite of the high quantity of sulphur present in seawater. By adding an amount of elemental sulphur to the system, most problems with nitrate build up are solved. In any biofilm denitrification takes place. Oxygen is consumed in the outer layers creating a shortness in the inner and lower layers ideal for anaerobic activity. Heterotroph denitrification is limited by the availability of organic carbon which means that in a normal situation only +- 30% of the nitrate-nitrogen produced will be removed, +- 25 % by the heterotrops and +- 5% by the autotropic sulpur bacteria present in the biofilm using HS. By providing elemental sulphur as a base for the growth of the biofilm 100% of the nitrate-nitrogen can be removed.
    Adding more organic carbon is not such a good idea because the growth of bio-mass will be 4 to 40 times higher as when done by autotrops and filters , stone, etc. may be clogged by bacterial slime. Cyano's assimilate nitrogen and will release it as ammonia-nitrogen. And more important, all kinds of bacteria are cultivated this way and a skimmer is very selective with removing these bacteria. Research has proven that only +- 40% of TOC can be removed by a skimmer http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=en:makazi:het_water:filtratie:eiwitafschuimer
    When more control over nitrate concentration is necessary, for example to keep the the nitrate level at 1ppm, a reactor filled with sulphur beats can be used. We call it BADES and the BADESSystem http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=en:badess:start

    The links are to the wiki Makazi Baharini which is original written in Dutch. Most references are in English and are accessible when registered. The translation is going on.
     
  18. jairus1

    jairus1

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    What other benefits would a sulphur reactor give you as a aquarist? For me it seems a little over the top to control something as easy as N03.
     
  19. Belgian Anthias

    Belgian Anthias

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    There is no need for an ORP controller to operate a sulphur denitrator. A sulphur denitrator must NOT be kept annoxic and is run at a normal flow of one to two times the total system volume each day. This for a 1% reactor. By the way, ORP is not a very reliable way to control anything.
    Denitrators that are kept anoxic (<0.5 ppm DO) have no place in a live support system as they are very vulnerable for mismanagement and must be used by experienced users only. A sulphur denitrator must not be managed the same way a carbon based denitrator is used. When managed as a BADES reactor it is a very reliable way for controlling the nitrate level and the nitrogen cycle can be closed by removing the daily nitrate production every day. http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=en:makazi:introductie_bades
    Elemental sulphur can be used ( BADES) very effectively without a reactor . http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=en:badess:bades_bio_filter#the_bades_bio-filter
    BADES can be used for many different applications and is very effective in removing nitrate-nitrogen. http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/doku.php?id=en:badess:start
    BADES used in a BADES biofilm reactor will remove all ammonia-nitogen by simultaneous nitrification and denitrification in the biofilm. http://www.baharini.eu/baharini/dok...es_bio-film_reactor#the_bades_biofilm_reactor
     
  20. Belgian Anthias

    Belgian Anthias

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    What do you mean with having control?
    If NO3 is as easily controlled, why are the fora filled with always the same question which always come back? A nitrate level of 1ppm is desired, how it can be controlled at 1ppm?
    An aquarium grows, animals grow and multiply, the moment comes that the capacity of the aquarium to reduce ammonia reaches its limits which leads to a very limited production of nitrate. Craches because of ammonia accumulation? Old tank syndrom? How this is controllable?
    We do not use BADES in a denitrator, we use it in a bio-reactor or as a biofilter without the need for a reactor. Nitrate is removed the moment it is produced by simultane nitrification and mixotroph denitrification in the biofilm. Just adding some elemental sulphur in the sump is enough to solve most nitrogen problems. VODKA dosing for example must be done very accurate and even than it causes problems instead of solving them.
    A benefit is that one is no longer limited in providing food which makes it possible to increase the bio-load considerably. A mixed reef that looks natural is a possibility.
    A time ago biofilters and reactors where banned because they produce nitrate, which is there purpose. Now very expensive stones and live sand are used for the same purpose with very limited results in removing nitrogen. What to do with the nitrate produced by biofilters? By replacing the sand by elemental sulphur the problem is solved.
    The bigest benifit is that everything takes place in an aerobic environment which makes it very safe and reliable and that the result is definitive. Al other methods are not controllable at all and some depend on a third party , are unreliable or very temporally.
    When BADES is used in a BADES reactor it gives full control to the user over de nitrate level in the system. And yes this is very easily done.
     
  21. 2una

    2una

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    Effluent Ph ?
     

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