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Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by THE ANIMAL, 28 Jul 2009.

  1. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL

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    Hi guys want to know in the past I use to dose my tank with some minerals on Wensdays and Sundays. Now I dit add an calcuim dripper to my system. Do I still dose my tank with calcium and the other minerals?
     
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  3. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    You should have been testing what you were doing before. So what are the differences now that you have changed??
     
  4. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    @ THE ANAMAL. You must have changed what you were doing for some reason. i Ask why?

    It is important that you understand why you made the changes and the effect on the system.
     
  5. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Hi Animal. What were you dosing and what was the results? It is very important to know the ingridients of chemicals dosed in a system.
     
  6. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Yes Nemos I dit test before and my calcium tested at 350ppm so I dose to try to keep it up and abofe 400ppm. Now with the calcium dripper it stays at 400ppm so I'm thinking of taking it up to 450ppm and keep it there. The reason being that I have just added my first sps to my tank.
     
  7. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    What form of Ca are are you dosing bud? Have you tested your Alk?
     
  8. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Yes Nemos I dit have a reason, I just added my first sps to my tank and my calcium were runing at 350ppm. So I use to dose my tank up to two times a week to keep it up to 400ppm I know that with sps the demand on calcium are high and whould like to take it up to 450 ppm. At this stage I'm straggeling to keep it up. Now I want to know should I stop to dose with the calcium and just keep on with the magnesium and other minerals?
     
  9. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Mek I dose with calcium, magnesium, Iodine, Pro- Coral Mineral, Pro- Coral Organic and Bio-Strontium. I must say sins I use this all my corals are health and looks must better.
     
  10. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    I only use Tropic Marine on all my products!
     
  11. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    O yes Mek and my alk test normal
     
  12. Mekaeel

    Mekaeel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Excellent stuff you using. Pro coral mineral creates better polyp extension especially with SPS. Pro coral Organic helps reduce phosphates in order to stimulate growth aswell as improve colour.
    I have used Tropic Marin products in the past, all were excellent.
    What are your Alk levels Animal?
     
  13. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Mek I use Red Sea test kid and normal on it shows between 1.7 and 2.8 they say natural seawater are 2.5 milli-equlvalents.
     
  14. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    @ THE ANIMAL The products you were using are very good. However the Tropic marine Bio Calcium is a balanced product. So to discontinue it's use in favour of a calcium or kalk reactor may effect KH or CA depending on which reactor you are using.

    Here is a copy of the theory that i think explains the use of CA reactors & Kalkwasser stirrers best. (Aqua Medic catalogue)

    1. Theory
    What is Kalkwasser?
    The addition of a saturated solution of Calciumhydroxide was the first method for the supply of
    reef aquaria with Calcium. Powdered Calciumhydroxide is stirred into tap - or reverse osmosis
    water, the undissolved hydroxide settles down and the clear supernatant is slowly added to the
    aquarium. This clear solution is called „Kalkwasser“ or lime water. Because of its high pH of 12.4 a
    dripwise addition is required, to avoid a dangerous rise of the pH value in the aquarium This
    solution attracts carbondioxide from the air. This results in the formation of calcium carbonate, that
    is hardly soluble and precipitates. The calcium content of the Kalkwasser decreases. If the pH value
    from the Kalkwasser decreases from 12.4 to 12.2, the calcium content drops from 900 to 300 ppm.
    The entrance of carbon dioxide into the solution has to be avoided as far as possible.
    If you measure the carbonate hardness or the alcalinity of a Kalkwasser – solution, you will find a
    very high value. This value is however not caused by bicarbonate or carbonate ions, which can be
    used by the corals, but by hydroxide- ions. The hydrochloric acid in the alcalinity test cannot differ
    between these substances. In the aquarium the hydroxide reacts with dissolved carbondioxide to
    form bicarbonate (OH- + CO2 = HCO3
    -) – if dosed slowly. If you dose the Kalkwasser too fast, the
    hydroxid may react with bicarbonate to form calcium carbonate – which is almost unsoluble. As a
    result the alcalinity drops (Ca2+ + HCO3
    - + OH- = H2O + CaCO3). For this reason, it is
    recommended to add the Kalkwasser during the night when you find the lowest pH value and the
    highest carbondioxid concentration.
    An important advantage of the so called “Kalkwasser-method” is the precipitaion of phosphates. By
    this process almost unsoluble hydroxylapatite is formed:
    3 Ca3(PO4)2 . Ca(OH)2 = Ca10(PO4)6(OH)2.
    This substance will not dissolve under “normal” aquarium conditions.
    The Kalkwasserreaktor is the automization of this method.

    Kalkwasser and Calciumreactor
    More and more of reef aquarists use the calcium reactor in combination with the
    Kalkwasserreaktor. The Calcium reactor produces free carbon dioxide, that is neutralised by the
    Kalkwasser. Phosphates, also those, that are produced by the Calcium reactor are precipitated by
    the Kalkwasser. However, you should avoid an overdosing of the calcium. Experiments have
    shown, that overdosage of bicarbonates and carbonates results in bleaching of red lime algae and
    corals do not fully open their polyps. The carbonate hardness (alcalinity) plays only a minor role in
    this process. Problematic is their quick dosage especially during daytime. The reason of this
    findings are not fully understood up today. In any case, a sufficient calcium supply of reef
    aquariums is one of the basic requirements.
    Aquariums with low levels of calcium and high carbonate hardness (alcalinity) cannot be adjusted
    to the right calcium level neither with a Kalkwasserreaktor nor with a Calcium reactor. To raise the
    Calcium content for 50 ppm, the carbonate hardness has to be raised by 7°KH ( 2.5 mmol
    alcalinity) In this case, the only possibility is the addition of calcium chloride, e.g. REEF LIFE
    Calcium until the desired value is reached. This value is then kept constant with the
    Kalkwasserreaktor and the Calcium reactor.










    Considering the above i believe you need to supplement the new calcium means you have installed until the reactor is producing the desired results according to your aquariums CA and KH usage.

    Hope this helps
     
  15. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Just tested my calcium agen it went down to 350ppm :banghead: even with the dripper and reactor why.:confused1:
     
  16. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    What reactor and dripper are you using?

    Are you dosing the dripper and reactor together?
     
  17. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    I'm using a deltec reactor and the dripper are a self dripper
    and yes I do use together.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Two things i noticed.
    1) You do not have a PH controller on the reactor so it is difficult to get the balance right. It is important to ensure that the PH inside the reactor is about 6.5. I know this is difficult to do without a PH pen and seawater PH test kits don't indicate that low. But for best results a measurement for PH of the effluent exiting the CRAX will ensure that you have the correct CO2 bubble rate. As a rough guideline the bubble counter should be in the region of about 1.5 per second. Also the effluent should only be leaving the CRAX at about 5 drops per second.

    2)Dose you Kalk and CA at different times. This will reduce the chances of precipitation.

    Give the above a try and let us know how it gos
     
  19. THE ANIMAL

    THE ANIMAL Thread Starter

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    Nemos first thanks, Then should I run the dripper at night and the reactor at daytime. I think my reactor are runing to fast at the moment it is not dripping but running. So I dont think it is doing it's job as it should. Will put in a ballvalf tomorrow. Will keep you informed? Should I not use tropic marine calcium to dose? OK but still if I get to sort out everything should I still dose additional Bio- calcium with the other minerals?
     
  20. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    Yup run dripper and reactor as you suggest.


    This is what deltec have to say on setting your PF500.

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tips on use of a Deltec Calcium Reactor [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always keep the unit topped up to the fill line rather than letting the media fully dissolve and then replacing a large amount at one time. The only real difference between one model and the next one up is the volume of media that it holds so if you run you reactor at half full you may as well have bought the next reactor down. [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Deltec reactor is fitted with a port for a pH probe however we do not believe that you must invest in such additional equipment to run the reactor. We prefer that the drip rate and bubble rates are set by measuring the dKH of the effluent from the reactor. This should be set at about 45-50 dKH which corresponds to 800 - 900 ppm of calcium. It is a simple matter therefore to set this up and then to adjust the length of time during the day that the reactor is operated until the correct calcium level is maintained in the aquarium. [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Always try to run the reactor during the lighting period of the aquarium so that the natural increase of the pH in the tank due to photosynthesis counteracts the lowering effect of the CO2 addition.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Never overfluidise the media or it will flush all of the fine particles into your sump. The fluid above the media should be clear not cloudy.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

    Once your reactor is sorted you should not have to dose the bio calcium or magnesium.

    The media inside the deltec reactor is two parts. You will find that the white part dissolves much faster than the grey part. The white part is the calcium carbonate and you can use the Aqua-Medic Hydrocarbonate if the detlec calcium carbonate is hard to come by. The grey part is magnesium and other trace elements. I assume a form of dolomite.
     
  21. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    This should give you an idea of the drip rate. Also notice this aquarist uses a peri pump to draw water through the reactor rather than pump water through.

    YouTube - Deltec Calcium reactor
     
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