Quarantine / Mixing station

Discussion in 'Quarantine Tanks, sick fish, QT corals' started by LCornelius, 3 Apr 2012.

  1. LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Some of you might know of my disaster losing all my fish due to a mix of misfortune.

    I have decided to take the lesson home and first fix my mistakes rather than give up.

    Here are take one on my QT / Mixing station:

    [​IMG]
    I'm going to follow the bucket method as explained by @RiaanP

    So at the bottom I have 2 JoJo 260L drums and a SICCE M5800 pump to move the water to where I need it. The bottom will also contain some electronics and my R.O Unit. The Salt Mix drum will have heaters and power heads to move the water around, will use the SICCE pump to mix the salt then switch to power heads.

    I will also use the SICCE pump to send water to my 2 QT's and DT.

    I will also use a 1 micron filter (not in pic) to transfer water between the 2 QT's.

    On top of the QT's I can setup either a frag tank or another bigger final QT with a frag tank.

    The QT's will be glass tanks, but will be able to remove them with ease for cleaning.

    So what do you all think of my plans?
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2012
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  3. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Are the qt tanks going to have water flowing betweeen them?

    I wouldnt have a qt tank double as a frag tank, just in case there comes a time that you need to dose some non-reefsafe medication.
     
    mandarinman and LuckyFish like this.
  4. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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    There will be no flow between the 2 QT's. The micron filter will be used to transfer 50% of the water from first QT to second QT as per the bucket method.

    So only 1 QT will be in use at a time.

    The frag tank I mentioned will be on top of the QT's, have a look at the empty bubble above QT's :)
     
  5. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Speed reading again. THought the top bubble was your display tank.
     
  6. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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    Sorry, my mistake! Should have added it in the drawing.
    So what do you think of my idea so far?

    Edit: Image updated
     
    Last edited: 3 Apr 2012
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    instead of using glass tanks for the QT, rather get semi transparent 38L or bigger plastic tubs with lids from a Plastic shop. They do not break that easily. And do not fill the tub all the way to the top. You will mess less if you need to move it and better on jumping fish. Only fill to two thirds of the container.

    My last bucket method for 2 damsels I used old salt buckets. Just cover them with something to prevent fish from jumping (like eggcrate). I do prefer the semi transparent tubs, as you can see the fish movement, and they can see you approaching. So they do not get this sudden fright when my unshaven face appears hovering above them.

    The 1microm filter thing works good. But it is easier when you do the 50% water change to do it via gravity siphon. Need about a meter height difference. Using a 60L tub, means you have 40L water. 20L from old tub and 20L new water. As my system is disease free, I do a 20L water change every second day to get water for the bucket. Instead of one big water change over the weekend.

    But you need to add the new water slowly. I use a 20L drum with a tap, same as sold by those water shops. And put two wooden beams across the tub with drum on top of the beams. Open the tap slightly but it must take about an hour to drip that 20L. On your design, there is no space to do that above the bucket / tub.

    And NEVER let your cleaning lady use those buckets. Had a very expensive experience. RIP Purple tang, foxface and Kleini Butterfly before I realized what happened.

    Do not let water pump from your salt mixing tank into the buckets either, The less change there is for back siphoning the better. Rather break your back and fill a drum and lift that and empty it into your quarantine. Anyway, You cannot do a 50% water change that quickly. Have to let it enter the system over an hour. 10% water changes barely affects water parameters. Simple mathematics. Take water with 100 units per liter of something, total 50L total units 5000, remove 5L and add water with mixed ratio of only 50units per liter. What do you have? 4500 units from original, 250 of the change, nett result 4750. 95% of the original value. Still close to what it was. Do the same with removing 50% or 25L. 2500 from original plus 1250 from new water, and you have 3750 new balance. 75% of the original value. Be it PH, nitrate, magnesium of red bull, the change is to much to do it in 5 minutes. You have to slowly acclimatize the new water into the quarantine system. Learned my lesson. RIP Coral Beauty.

    (if my calculations above are wrong, it is late and I had a few cold ones.... )
     
    Last edited: 3 Apr 2012
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    And do not use nets on certain fish with delicate skin. I believe it is partly the reason for white spot outbreaks just after fish got caught and handled.
    Do not remove the fish from the water when transferring between buckets. Less Stress
    Rather catch them using a plastic bag or really small glass fish tank or cookie jar.
    Do not touch the fish with your hands. Although under water your hands are still 12 degrees warmer than their bodies.
    QT system must have its own equipment like nets (if you use nets).
    Must have double set of pumps heaters air stones etc. , a set per bucket. When you dry a bucket, its equipment must be dried at the same time as well.

    What are you planning to do in regards to holding facilities. Rather drop the frag tank and use that as bigger area where fish can stay another month for observation after the bucket method.
     
  9. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    Absolutely right. Anyone should do exactly that. Any fish or shrimp should never be taken out of the water via net. Always transfer within water and don't touch it.
    And that procedure should start at your LFS.
    @RiaanP, what makes you think that there is a temperature difference of 12 degrees?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    @LCornelius

    What happened? Did you post it here on MASA?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  11. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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    Hi Riaan, I will be using eggcrate to cover the QT tanks. I just like glass more, in my opinion will be easier to clean. Will be able to remove them from the stand with ease.

    Big reason for using glass tanks with lids.

    I was thinking of using a small pump to pump the water from the one QT to the other. This pump will be hanged out to dry as well.

    Was thinking of using a ball valve to drip the water from the salt mix tank. Do you think I will be able to achieve the same results?

    Everything in the stand is untouchable for every one in my house hold.

    Thanks for your input Riaan, much appreciated.
     
  12. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Human body temp, 36.
    tank temp 24/25.

    yes having your hands in water will "cool" your hands down. But how much? The fish will not feel cold to the touch, because it is the same as the water. So if water feels colder than your body temp then the reverse must be true as well, your hands should feel hot to touch for the fish.

    And lifting the fish out of the water using your hands to do the transfer to the other tub. Fish already stressed due to being lifted out. Imagine now being in a hot place as well.

    Effect must be about the same as putting something heated up to 48 degrees against your skin. Will it burn you?
     
  14. LuckyFish

    LuckyFish MASA Contributor

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    @RiaanP

    Riaan, 36 degrees is inside our bodies. The surface temperature of our skin is around 27 to 29 degrees. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    not sure how much the water on your skin will help to cool our hands touching the fish. But water temp of 43 burns a human, and that is only 7 hotter than a human body temp. So what will happen to a fish if he touches something hotter than himself? I do not know. Maybe I'm totally wrong and actually just causing a storm over nothing. But I do not like it.
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2012
  16. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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    Design update:
    [​IMG]
    The QT3 tank will be the final QT stage where I can QT fish for 30 days.
    I will run a skimmer (TS1 or TS2) in the QT3 tank or just my HOB skimmer :)
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2012
  17. LCornelius

    LCornelius Thread Starter Moderator

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    Well square tubing has been ordered and ready to start the build.
    I'm going with the design above. Still need to get the final pricing on equipment for the QT tanks, but should not be to big a deal.

    Just need to place the order for my 1 micron filter from our local water boy.
    Will go shopping for some heaters etc tomorrow.
     
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