POWER Outage Switch

Discussion in 'Anything DIY Related' started by Neil H, 13 Mar 2009.

  1. Neil H

    Neil H Moderator MASA Contributor

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    HI DIY guru's

    I am trying to make my tank as eiskom safe as possible...

    I have a deep cycle car battery already (the expensive part) .... I am planning on buying a 12v bilge pump as a backup return system and a battery opperated air pump to oxygenate the water ........

    Thats all good and well..... now i am looking for some sort of switch of sorts that i can plug into the main electrical circut of the house ..... when it goes off, it will allow the circut from the battery to be completed and the battery pumps to work, when there is power, it holds the circut open......

    please help me here okes !!!!!!!!!
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    neil, i can discuss with u this eve when i collect the fish, its a relay, simple and mine works great... i have all the tools, expertise to install and setup, we design those things for the generators we install
     
  4. Andreas

    Andreas

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    I bought a relay that does exactly that.It cost R50 for the relay and R50 for the board it lays on.You basically connect earth/neutral to the one end and complete the circuit of your bilge/battery on the other side.The current it completed between the battery/bilge if the no power comes from the mains.Very simple and effective.I have to add, this is an industrial one so should last a long time:)

    Yellow thing on the right hand side


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Very nice ideas here guys :)
     
  6. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    thanks for the feedback guys....

    Dallas i look forward to chatting to you this evening .....

    Perhaps you can give me some idea's as to how to neaten up all my wires ..... i think on the last count i have over a dozen plugs for various pumps etc ..... and it looks messy !!!
     
  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    cool, let me know if u need anything can bring from my shop
     
  8. Neil H

    Neil H Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Thanks dallas, have a look at the system tonight and then we can decide what will be best !
     
  9. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    cool
     
  10. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    Don't forget the pics for the DIY section
     
  11. Bob the (reef)builder

    Bob the (reef)builder

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    That is a great idea, much simpler than the other ideas. How does the battery get recharged?
     
  12. lIghty

    lIghty

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    you can use a simple 220v relay, cost about R5-R15, just connect the relay between the battery and pump, using the Com and NC terminals and the 220V terminals to a plug, its a 5 minute job. Like Bob said, you'll need a decent charger to keep the battery maintained!

    Just let me know if you want me to post a drawing of the wiring setup.

    Just remember, 220 Volts will kill
     
  13. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Yes please. Also any suggestions on chargers ?

    Any idea on calculating the amount of time the pump will last compared on a fully charged battery ?


    Just remember, 360 Volts will kill you even more :razz:
     
  14. lIghty

    lIghty

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    Here's the schematic, as for chargers you will need to find the correct rated charger for the type/Ah of battery used, also one that can be left connected continuously, these usually have a microcontroller as to not damage the battery by over charging.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Andreas

    Andreas

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    That looks a lot more confusing compared to what I've setup Lighty.Why dont you just connect the charger to the battery?
     
  16. lIghty

    lIghty

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    depending on the type of charger, it might be better to isolate it from the battery when the power is off, hence I connected it thru the NO pin of the relay.
     
  17. Mo_G

    Mo_G MASA Contributor

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    I am not much of an electrician.

    With a relay switch and a power outage, the pump will still operate via power from the battery?
    Is power from the battery been used at any time while there is electricity?

    is there any manual process, if there is a power outage?
    is the battery a 12V?
    is the pump 220V or 12V?
    no need for an inverter?

    thanks
     
  18. lIghty

    lIghty

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    The relay is controlled by the mains(220V), it inturn can control what ever you like, in the above pic it controls a 12V pump motor off a 12V battery, with this current setup, the pump will only turn on when the power fails, EI, you would still run your normall 220V return pump as usual, just that the 12V pump will start when the mains fails. It runs with independent plumbing and not connected to the normal return system.

    There are many ways of doing this backup system, you could also use your normal return pump powered by an invertor (which is powered by batteries) when the mains fails, but this would require a "PURE SINE" Invertor which is very expensive, hence the reason most people use cheaper 12V pumps.

    You could us a system where by you have the 12v pump on the system and it would run continuously, where mains on or off, but don't think the pump would last too long and they are not normally designed to run for days on end...

    hope this makes sence:whistling:

    Lighty
     
  19. riyadhessa

    riyadhessa

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    Jz im confuse
     
  20. Andreas

    Andreas

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    What dont you understand?Maybe we could explain it better
     
  21. lIghty

    lIghty

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    ok, tel me try again....

    Forget about the relay, as its basically just a "automatic switch" when the mains fails.

    normally you would use a 220v return pump, now it you still want to use this pump when the mains fails, it can't run directly off a battery, so you need an invertor, which converts 12V (from battery) to 220V, for the pump. ok? (the relay would just do the switching, changing the pumps feed from the "Wall" output (which is now off) to the invertors output (now on))

    Mains fail > 220v pump turns off, relay connects the 220V pump to the invertor > invertor connected to battery. pumps turns back on and works....


    This is probably the best system but like I said, the invertor required to run your pump is not the normal type (Modified Sine) you buy off the shelf at Midus etc, it is a special type (True Sinewave) that is expensive. Eg. and 300w mod sine sells for about R300, but a 300w True sine sells for about R1500 - BIG difference.

    In the other method, the relay still only acts as an "automatic switch" for when the mains fails, but instead of using a costly invertor to power the normal 220v pump, you just use a cheap 12V pump that is powered directly off the battey.

    Mains fails > 220v Pump turns off and stays off > relay turns on the 12V pump connected to battery > 12V pump takes over function of the 220V pump.....

    Sorry if I sound mad, but I sometime find it difficult to explain myself:whistling:

    Hope this is easier to understand?
     
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