Powder Blue Tang - White Spot

Have you removed the fish from your tank yet???Or did you just call them?
 
I've just spoken to them about the issue about the fish and I've basically been told it's my problem!

I even asked for them to assist me in quarantining the fish and they refused.

This will be the last time I do business with them! Talk about bad customer service. This will be the 3rd time I've had problems with them and never again! Not to mention the thousands of Rands spent with them excluding my monthly expenses.

well you should state the facts truthfully...
i get all my stock via them and never an issue.

yes these arrived on Thursday in the store, you chose the fish, had you researched them you would have seen that they require QT as they are notorious for WS. the fact that it never had WS in the store and got it in YOUR tank means its out of the LFS's control. something in your setup, your yellow tang as you mentioned chased him and stressed him so that he got WS, how is this a lfs issue? Basic reading here and on many other forums would have shown you that adding aggressive tangs together will cause problems.

had the fish died in the bag, different story

really childish that you expect them to take it back after it got WS from your tank and put it in theirs, then even more childish that you rant like a kid here coz you didnt get your own way.

Shame on YOU
 
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Even though the fish you had in your tank before you purchased your powder blue had no symptoms of WS, they coukd have presented with some immunity to the disease. When you introduced the powder blue, it became very stressed because of the very aggressive yellow tang. Increased stress leads to increased cortisol levels which supresses immunity and leads to a ws outbreak. Unfortunately you had the perfect storm in your tank. Add vitamins to your food, garlic three times a week and hopefully your tank will recover.
 
You also had the yellow tang that put it through alot of stress chasing it. Either way i hope that you come right
 
Thanks for all the replies guys and I've finally cooled off. I'll take Riaans advise and see how it goes.

Jeez who would have said a Hobbie can be this stressful but it's my passion so I'll deal with it :)
 
I honestly think you should take the blame here and not Wild on Pets. Think perhaps you should go sit down think about all these answers given, go google the information ( which you should have done prior to purchase) and perhaps you will see that your comment is uncalled for and down right rude. What will you achieve slandering Wild on Pets ? Instead own up to YOUR mistake, LEARN from it and MOVE on, your choice at the end. I am sure you were not put under any pressure to purchase the powder blue? I dont mean to be offending anybody but think you must now just take this advice given and concentrate in getting the tang well and healthy and perhaps an appology to Wild on Pets.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys and I've finally cooled off. I'll take Riaans advise and see how it goes.

Jeez who would have said a Hobbie can be this stressful but it's my passion so I'll deal with it :)

As my last message suggest...i think you must edit that post you wrote while being emotional and recover from this...You have all the support you need right here on MASA:thumbup:;)
 
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well you should state the facts truthfully...
i get all my stock via them and never an issue.

yes these arrived on Thursday in the store, you chose the fish, had you researched them you would have seen that they require QT as they are notorious for WS. the fact that it never had WS in the store and got it in YOUR tank means its out of the LFS's control. something in your setup, your yellow tang as you mentioned chased him and stressed him so that he got WS, how is this a lfs issue? Basic reading here and on many other forums would have shown you that adding aggressive tangs together will cause problems.

had the fish died in the bag, different story

really childish that you expect them to take it back after it got WS from your tank and put it in theirs, then even more childish that you rant like a kid here coz you didnt get your own way.

Shame on YOU

Dallas I'm on the forum for advise not for insults. Don't appreciate being called childish. Do I not have a right to express my opinions? I apologies if I might have sounded childish to you but I was in fact annoyed or angry because of my love toward these animals and their we being. Like mentioned earlier I have grown attached to my little guy.

If anything your reply makes me feel like this forum is about who knows more than others etc. I was under impression it was more about helping one another along who have the same passion.
 
It wasn't an opinion you were slating them for what ever the cause , big difference
 
Powder blues are notorious for white spot....same as achilles and clown tangs. ..its really a risk when buying them.and I doubt any lfs will take back a fish with white spot and add it to their systems. If it's eating soak all food in garlic and vitamin c and fatten it up...might boost fish immune system enough to fight off the white spot....you will always have it in your tank tho and it may return sporadically. ..I know a few guys keeping pb in tanks like that
 
@ Pon Tang

As everyone said your tank is already infected so there is a good chance that the others will get whitespot. If you take the fish back to the LFS that fish will be more stressed out and will definitely die. Also chances of stressing your other fish by catching it will increase the chances of whitespot infection in your other fish.

I suggest getting a QT tank in future and keeping them in there and treating the fish.

make sure fish is eating healthy and keep lights off will help. Is there corals in the tank? Get medication for the fish as well. Just watch out for copper base medications as they will kill of coral and inverts.

Gd luck
 
please look at this diagram

10944d5110a7027e1.jpg


The smallest size for WS is 25 to 60 micron
That is 25/1000 of a mm and you cannot see that by just checking out fish. Look at the minimal period WS is on the fish, 3 to 7 days. Maximum size 200 to 250 micron, quarter of a mm. That you can see. But by the time you do see it, it is at the very end of the period on the fish.

did you get the fish already infected? I really cannot say, depending on a lot of factors, including water temperature, stress and exposure to an infected area. Or they already had it in the wild. Did the fish picked it up in your tank? Might? But I doubt it, yes the extra stress from the other yellow tang would promote the outbreak.

What this points to, does not matter how long the fish was at the LFS, or in your tank since you got it. Proper QT must be in place. Cannot get around it. You cannot see if the fish is infected in the early stages of the parasitic phase.

Hope and Pray, as I want to name the practice of leaving the infected fish in your display. It can work. but again, a lot of guys lost a lot of fish in that process. My very first time I had WS, I done the Hope and Pray method, adding some "wonderful" supposedly to work medicine. I lost half my fish. Other guys swear by garlic or even ginger. The basis for this method is to ensure that the fish keep on eating.

Good luck in whatever option you take.
 
In QT, I had a severe outbreak, after I had the fish in QT for a month. Lost them all. But the fish was healthy all along. What happened to me was that one infected fish dropped a few WS that encyst wherever. Each cyst can release 200 to 1000 WS buggers. In our small little systems, those buggers can easily find a host. In the ocean, WS have an extreme low infection rate, as most gets washed out into the currents becoming food for bigger organisms. So if I had 5 cysts that survived and hatched, I could sit between 1000 and 5000 buggers in a 90L tank. With 4 little fish to host on. No change for any of them to survive. And I did lost them all.

That is when I started looking into the bucket method. If I cannot take the WS out of the area, why not take the infected area away from the fish. Just one cyst that's in the corner under a piece of silicone and all my effort with the QT is wasted.
 
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Ok- first off, let's not beat up on this guy/gal because they didn't quarantine. Personally, I have my doubts as to if quarantining fish from LFS is really as important as popular opinion claims it is (at least when it comes to preventing ich). Here's why:

1) Quarantining fish is not necessarily going to prevent white spot (or "Marine Ich" or Cryptocaryon irritans). Let's call it "Crypto." The organism that causes Crypto is virtually ubiquitous. It can come in on live rock, sand, anything at all that's ever been exposed to natural sea water. Even if you tried to quarantine everything, even live rock, you'd probably still get it in your tank at some point. Thus, the really issue isn't trying to keep the parasite out of your system (which is futile IMO), the real goal should be to keep your fish from becoming badly infected with the parasite. Some tangs, especially blue tangs and powder blue tangs, are like Crypto magnets. As soon as they get stressed, they get it. So I wouldn't freak out when one of them shows up with a few white spots. I would simply try to address the stress the fish is under, and take measures to reduce the population and impact of the parasite (such as use of a diatom filter to remove the form of the parasite that moves in the water column). Most important will be ameliorating the stress of the suffering fish.

2) Quarantining a fish may (or may not - depending on the circumstances) cause the fish more stress than it prevents. Fish get stressed when their environment changes. When you quarantine, you're forcing the fish to go through one more total environment change than it would if you didn't quarantine. Now, if your water parameters are very different than those of the LFS, then I'd say, yeah, it's probably a good idea to let the fish acclimate to the new water parameters before you introduce it to the other fish (i.e. let it deal with one shock at a time). But if your water is similar in salinity, temperature, pH, etc. as the LFS, I don't think quarantining is an advantage.

3) The fish that make it to your LFS have likely already been exposed to every pathogen, fish disease, and fish parasite that they're likely to be exposed to in the course of their captive lives. I don't know if it works the same way in South Africa as it does in the US, but in the US, fish arrive in the US first to a large distributor. They sit at the distributor for awhile before they get to the LFS. Thus, I'd say that most the "weak" fish, or diseased fish, have pretty much already died off by the time they get to your LFS. Now, I imagine that some fish might be "carriers" of diseases which don't do them much harm, but might do another species of fish harm. However, in that case, if the fish is a carrier, I don't see how quarantining the carrier fish is going to rid it of the disease or parasite anyway.

The bottom like is: IMO, whatever disease or parasite a new fish might have when it comes to the LFS, your current fish have likely either a) already been exposed to it, or b) are going to get exposed to it even if you quarantine the new fish.

To be clear, I'm not advocating against quarantining per se - I'm just saying that, when it comes to fish, and trying to prevent disease, I don't think quarantining necessarily makes much of a difference. It might in some circumstances, but in the case of presented by the OP, I don't think quarantining this tang would have necessarily prevented it from getting Crypto.

I do think that quarantining corals is a very good idea... but that's another story.
 
Is it eating. If so keep it very well fed and include plenty of nory in its diet. Is the yellow tang still harassing it? If the stress levels are down and it is feeding well it could pull through. The bucket method does however work.
 
I have my doubts as to if quarantining fish from LFS is really as important as popular opinion claims it is

In a way I tend to agree, but also to disagree.

My quarantine is a full system.
QTtank_zpsb1a9f70e.jpg


90L "display" with corner overflow and another 90L tank setup as a 3 chamber sump. TS1 skimmer, lots and lots of bio balls and a return chamber.

After the fish went via the bucket method, they stay in here for another 5 weeks. the pieces of liverock in there I can add or remove.

I lost a lot of fish in that tank. Lately a LaMarck Angel and 3 anthias. Did manage to quarantine a small filefish, ocealaris clown and a "special" damsel. Do I believe its worthwhile running a QT. Yes. I can monitor the fish better. Feed it and make sure it does eat. The Anthias after 3 weeks still refused to eat anything except lobster eggs.

For last year, in my display I lost a Clarkii clown (was away and fish was gone when I got back 2 weeks later). And I lost an old filefish.

What I do believe is that certain fish should never be netted. Look at Powder Blues, when is the most common time they get WS. After they got introduced to the system. But is the issue not maybe the way we handle the fish. Why is it that fish can withstand WS, but once handled, they break out with WS. The nets are to rough, and damages the scales. Allowing WS easier access to get under the protective slime layer and scales. Other fish gets their gills or fins damaged. Like Angels or Foxfaces. I use a small fishtank, actually a spider tank to catch and move fish. Keeping them submerged.

The special damsel
BlueDamsel_zpsb6c1096e.jpg


Tell me that damsels are not beautiful.
 
In a way I tend to agree, but also to disagree.

My quarantine is a full system.

Haha... it's so funny, I was going to add an exception to my little narrative for people who maintain constant, full-system QTs, but I ran out of steam at the end. You guys make up a special group of "serious QT-ers." ;) But the exception would have only applied to QT-ing in general -- not to my opinions regarding Crypto specifically.

Because... the "problem" (emphasis on the quotation marks) with a full-system QT is that, by providing substrate and rocks and everything else that makes the QT so nice for the fish is that you're also providing everything the parasite needs to survive in QT. In other words... more fish-friendly you make the QT, the more parasite friendly you make the QT.

You see the irony?

This is why I'm a big fan of diatom powder... as (RiaanP) pointed out in another post, in the wild, the swimming stage of the parasite is "washed out" by large volumes of water and heavy currents. We can't exactly recreate that in an aquarium, but we can filter the little buggers out. :1:
 
I agree with your comment regarding netting. I personally think it should be avoided at all costs.

When I worked at a LFS, we weren't even allowed to net marine fish!! We had to scoop them with one of those clear plastic boxes.

And those damsels are indeed gorgeous. :-D
 
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