Position of top up tank

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by Forbes, 15 Dec 2014.

  1. Forbes

    Forbes

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    I am doing a makeover on a 600 cube I bought, and I want to have a top up tank independent from the sump and above it, which will effectively allow me to have a bigger sump. I know that depending on how it is set up there could be problems with the syphon effect of the plumbing. I would appreciate any help and advice on what to do and what not to do.
     
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  3. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    i use an RO booster pump which is uni-directional and no chance of it siphoning back....
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    set a 15mm conduit pipe in one corner of the sump, upright. To end higher than RO chamber. From RO pump, use flexible hose with a 90 degree elbow, that hooks into the conduit pipe. There should be no seal, the elbow must be to small and fit in totally loose in the conduit. Else use 25mm conduit.

    This way you need no extra strong pumps or siphon breaks.
     
  5. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    I am new to this, and not completely understanding you, if the top up tank is above the sump, the pump must either be located in the top up tank or in the sump, if it is in the top up tank, it would have to pump the water down to the sump (which is the direction of flow?), if the pump is placed below the top up tank, the pump would have to suck the water from the top up tank and pump it into the sump (which is the same direction). Surely the flow is the same direction in both cases and the direction which the pump is pumping anyway.
     
  6. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    RiaanP that I can understand, and as long as the end of the pump pipe stops above the maximum water level of the top up tank, it can't syphon because there is no seal with the downpipe.
    Thanks for your help guys. dallasg, I am still interested to know more about your method.
     
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  7. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    pump in top up tank. Pump up to higher open end, from where water drains to lower sump.
     
  9. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Oh, something important I forgot to mention.
    The bottom end of the conduit pipe, cut it at a 45 degree angle. So that the pipe can stand on the sharp end without being able to block up. Then you most likely would need nothing to hold the pipe in place.
     
  10. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    Thanks, I have worked out how to do it using standard pipe fittings, I will make it up and post a picture when I have completed it.
     
  11. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    Attached is the Anti-syphon piping I have made for my ATU system. I still have to cut the pipes to the correct length, but will do that once I have completed the stand and sump etc.

    ATU Pipe 1.jpg

    ATU Pipe 2.jpg
     
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    did you cut the bottom end at an angle?
     
  13. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    As I mentioned in my reply, I still have to cut the pipes to the correct length to suit the sump etc. When I do that, I will cut the bottom end at an angle. I wanted to prove to myself that the concept would work first, and it works great, I am very happy with the result.
     
  14. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Cool
    I like the little holes you made for the siphon break. Clever Idea. :thumbup:
     
  15. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    Thank you
     
  16. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    After some serious planning and with my limited knowledge and experience, I have now come up with the best plan I can for the makeover on the 600 cube I bought. I have completed the tank with the exception of the hole for the closed loop flow.
    Comments and advice would be appreciated.

    Complete System.jpg

    System minus Cladding.jpg

    Tank Stand and Plumbing.jpg

    Sump Top Up Tank and Plumbing-1.PNG

    Sump Top Up Tank and Plumbing-2.jpg

    Sump Top Up Tank and Plumbing-3.PNG
     
  17. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Replace the second elbow on the RO line with a T piece, with open end pointing up. Can even put a short open 50mm pvc pipe on it. That way you got a siphon break.


    Maybe color code your pipes. White RO, Blue return, Red closed loop. Even if it is just for the design. It will be easier for fellow reefers to understand your layout.
     
  18. weezle

    weezle

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    Dude! That is a neat looking sump design :peroni:
    Just one question, hom far below the maximum water level in the final chamber is the pump inlet for your return pump? Wen the water level drops down to the point just before the top up pump kiks in (lowest level)
    To the top of the return line.
    The reason for my query is that pump looks very powerful and if the water level gets low it could suck air and create a micro bubble issue.
    Such a cool design :m106:
    Cheers wes
     
  19. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    Riaan, Thanks for the feedback I have posted more snaps with colour coding to make things clearer. I have also attached a snap of the anti-syphon mechanism. I have drilled six holes in the reducer to break the air lock.
    Wes, thanks for the feedback. I have allowed for the operating level of the sump to be 260mm and I have got 40mm from the operating level to the last weir panel and 180mm from the operating level to the centre of the outlet for the flow pump. Flow pump Ocean Runner 3500 l/hr. At this stage I am not sure where to set the top up level, some advice would be appreciated.

    Plumbing-4.PNG

    Plumbing-5.jpg

    Plumbing-6.PNG

    Plumbing-7.jpg
     
  20. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Not sure if the skimmer and Pellet reactor will work set up like that. It is not a re-circulating skimmer. A skimmer with 2 pumps, one pulling in at the top, blowing back in at the bottom with the venturi. And another feeder pump.

    Your setup, the skimmer will pull water from out of the reactor, but on the other side the reactor is fed by the return pump. Unless the flow into the reactor match the skimmer intake, I do not see it working nicely.

    Maybe a T piece on skimmer intake, With "T" upside down, and the skimmer dumping into the top opening. That way any extra suction from skimmer pump would be directly from sump.

    I would extend the sump and also have the return and NP-Pellet reactor standing in the water. Bigger sump, plus you need one less hole, bulkhead and 50mm ball valve.
     
  21. Forbes

    Forbes Thread Starter

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    Riaan, thanks for the feedback, the Pellet reactor does not connect to the skimmer, I have just put the discharge from the pellet reactor and the intake from the skimmer close together. I can move them further apart if it is going to be a problem. I purposely placed the pellet reactor and the return pump outside of the sump as I did not want equipment in the sump. If it is going to be a problem I will change the design.
     
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