Please help with pump details

Discussion in 'Pumps and Waterflow' started by PeterL, 8 Jun 2010.

  1. PeterL

    PeterL

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    I have a pump which I would like to use for a pond set-up which I would like to build soon. Been putting it off for 2 years, I have this pump but have no details on it's flow rates, can you please help.

    The fan cover is easily replaced from almost any pool shop with old broken pump setups coming through. This pump was run on a pond for about a year so I know it is still good.

    I just don't want to build too large to find the pump is too small, the pond size will be governed by the pump size - flow rates.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. AdS Guest




    to hide all adverts.
  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
  4. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    Thanks, just by a visual, it looks to be a similar size, maybe a little smaller, to what I have running in my pool. If that is the case, I will have a perfect setup on the way. Well...I have one shovel and 1 pair of hands (mine) and a 13.5m3 hole to dig (4x4x0.5 and 3x3x0.5 joined by a 2x1x0.5 narrower section. I rounded it off but it could be less considering it is sort of a bean come figure 8 shape pond I have in mind.

    I don't know if I should start digging the hole soon, DAMN!! It is going to be some serious work coming up. I might need the services of a few "garden engineers" to assist in creating the required hole...

    Anyone with a Backactor sitting in their garage which they can help with?? :p
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    Too shallow.

    remember the only exercise Koi get is when swimming up and down. Left to right is only gliding. Also the deeper the more stable the water temp will be in the winter. Must be at least 1m. Then from .8 deeper the water at the bottom will actually be warmer than on the top during winter. Also in the winter you do not want to circulate the water top down, as this will destroy the warm zone at the bottom. Best is somewhere between 1.2 and 1.8, (or even deeper).

    Must go with bottom drains, with 110mm PVC pipes to compartments fitted with removable standpipes. To be able to flush the 110mm pipe, Believe me, it does get blocked.

    Pond sloped heavily at the bottom towards the drains.

    Gravity fed filtration system, NOT PUMP FED. Else you will mulch everything, then try to push that through your filter system trying to get all the minced leaves etc out. Must flow from first chamber to series of chambers, first with those oversize hair curlers, then with Japanese Mat, then biological filter. Then pump back to dam. Filter system, when you want koi must be 1/3 of the dam size. So 12000L dam, and then 4000L filter system.

    Aeration can be provided by jetting the water back into the dam, or by waterfalls, but, remember koi tend to jump against the stream, and out of the pond. Bummer.

    Remember the bird netting, no point in paying $$$ for some nice koi, only to end up in lunch for some birds. Install it to be unobtrusive.

    Can use water plants to keep algae in control, just like cheato.

    And using an overflow weir, just like a swimming pool is a good idea to catch most leaves before it sinks and settle on the bottom. But, normal swimming pool weirs do trap koi, and kill them. Not nice.

    Do not fall for the rubberising trick. Or Super Laycolt. Been there, done that, redo it again, it just do not work on any sharp corners. Or where side wall rest on floor slab. Redone mine with black marbelite, no problems thereafter. And looks stunning.

    Reinforce the floor, and the walls where they rest on the floor. Basically, build it the same as a swimming pool. But then saying that, it is not the same. Normal standard swimming pool methods do not work. They do not have bottom drains.
     
  6. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    Here is a diagram of what I had in mind - OK so it was just whipped upin paint, but if gives you an idea of what I have in mind. The filter units are 44gal plastic drums creating the bio-filter, tall and thin design works - seen it in successful application.

    Weir box similar to swimming pool with mesh in front to prevent fish entering.
    Flow controlled around pond to prevent dead zones - this considered because I intend on the bean/figure 8 formation pond.
    Rock reature for looks, no big splashes, just water trickle down a wall maybe 1500mm max width.
    The drain line I intended on plugging for the most part and sweeping the pond at which ever intervals should the dirt build up become a concern - you have an alternate idea I am interesteed in discussing in more detail because I am not clear in the understanding.

    Here's the idea:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    You got a pump fed filter system, not gravity fed.

    Problem is, any leaves will be chopped up fine by the pump. Then you need to remove the pieces with your filters. Any result that your filters block up a lot easier.

    Your pond is about 7 to 8 meters in length. Any leaves etc will not move down to the deep end. It is not a swimming pool with one side shallow and the other side deep. If you only want one bottom drain, put in right in the middle. I will make 3. With 3 seperate 110mm pipes to deep flush box. From there 1 pipe to filters. In flush box, you must have 3 loose pieces of pipes that fits over the inlet pipes, and once in place they are higher than the dam water level, so it will stop the flow. So that you can put it over and drain the settlement box. As you take one one, that line will flush clean of any bottom settlement. Then you put the pipe back, drain again and flush the next line.

    And your bottom is not sloped enough towards the bottom drain.

    From there to settlement box, or vortex chamber. Basically a funnel shape. Water enters at an angle midway, Turns around and around. With outlet in the middle on top. Any leaves will settle at the bottom. Got a ball valve to flush bottom part quickly to clean it. Next, chambers for filters, with coarser filter material first and finer later with biological last. Then it flows to last chamber with return pump. From there you pump it up to your waterfall.

    On small sytems, this setup is not needed but it is advisable. Because the flow is too low, then the outlet pipes blocks easily. So in my opinion, on 3000L and less, bottom drains becomes more an issue.
     
  8. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    the part I am missing is how to get water to flow uphill into the filter system without pumping it...i am not keen on digging a seriously deep pit to house an underground filter system so that I can gravity feed. Can you offer better insight as I am clearly misunderstanding something.
     
  9. robertkukla

    robertkukla

    Joined:
    23 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Minnabron , JHB
    i have a Koi pond filter for you it is about 600mm x 400mm x 600mm high this could help, i will bring it around sometime for you
     
  10. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    it is unfortunately too small but thx for the offer, I am looking at 3 or 4 of those blue plastic 200L drums. I do however have a use for it if you aren't going to use it...

    How fit is your 'garden engineer'? You think it will take him less that a month to dig a monster hole in the ground for me??
     
  11. robertkukla

    robertkukla

    Joined:
    23 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    969
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Minnabron , JHB
    give him some whacky tabakie and he will dig it in a day, what you want to use the filter box for , if you can use it you can have it
     
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    Yip, that is where the problem starts. Remember somewhere I mentioned something about the lay of the property. Anyway the filters should be at same water level than the dam. And because you are pumping out of the last chamber, that will get the flow started. If filters are too low, you will have the same problem as on your Marine tank when power goes out. You will flood the sump or the filters if syphon breaks etc are absent.
    Also filters can be remote. Or right next to pond, like in a wooden deck over it to hide it. Within / under your walkway.

    If you cannot gravity feed the filters, your maintenance will just be higher. Also depends on the type of trees you have around the dam. And their leave size.

    There are commercial koi filters on the market. But check the rating. Same as your skimmer. They can only handle a certain volume.

    If out on the east rand side (Northern side) go check out King Koi. Get a feeling on how they filter bigger ponds.
    http://www.kingkoi.co.za/
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    http://www.kingkoi.co.za/PondFilters/V1O5.php

    Dimensions in cm (Ø x H)
    1,050 x 1,020
    Dimensions in inches (Ø x H)
    41.3 x 40.2
    Inlet: Threaded Bulkhead Fitting
    2"
    Clean water outlet: Threaded Bulkhead Fittings
    2" (2 pcs)
    Sludge drain: Threaded Bulkhead fitting
    1 1/2"
    No. of Matala Filter Grid Black (SM190)
    1
    No. of Coiled Flex-Matala® Filter Mat Green (RFM290)
    1
    No. of Coiled Flex-Matala® Filter Mat Blue (RFM360)
    1
    Suitable for Pond Volume up to (L), (Gal)
    20,000, 5,300
    Suitable for Koi Pond Volume up to (L), (Gal)
    10,000, 2,650
     
  14. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    @ Robert - CZ, perfect for that application.

    @ Riaan - my ground slopes very gently, almost level ground, hence my initial idea of having to pump up to the filer system
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    And these are pump fed
    http://www.kingkoi.co.za/PondFilters/Biosteps.php

    But it is more maintenance.

    Mine works on this principal. But my pond is only 3000L (wish it was bigger)
    And I found leaves can and do block up my pump. Not a big issue, but not nice in winter to stick your hands in there.
     
  16. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    that is why I wanted to use a weir box, there will be a certain level of maintanance and I wont have too much in the lines of leaves, lucky for me...i am also using a swimming pool pump with a filter basket also, so it will prevent pump blockages
     
  17. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    23,142
    Likes Received:
    1,228
    Location:
    Centurion
    OK, Google maps is cool.

    Anyway, you got 2 possible 3 trees that can mess into your pond.

    First work out how deep you want your pond, then calculate the water volume.

    From that you know what size filter you need.

    Those 200L plastic drums are available from Farm City or other co-operations.
     
  18. PeterL

    PeterL Thread Starter

    Joined:
    19 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    East Rand
    i like those filters, compact and looks like they will work a treat. The cost of this pond is climbing every day and I may end up having to put this off for another month or two for additional cashflow.
     
Recent Posts

Loading...
Similar Threads - Please help pump Forum Date
Please help selecting "right" CLS pump Pumps and Waterflow 18 Jan 2010
Overflow fitting help please Pumps and Waterflow Wednesday at 11:47
Please help ORI with the KZN bait collection survey Diving, Collecting and Environmental Discussions 11 Nov 2016
Urgent help needed Please help/ fish looks like its dying Urgent Help Needed 7 Nov 2016
Please Help Id this Surgeon ID Needed 15 Aug 2016
Help please Quarantine Tanks, sick fish, QT corals 4 Aug 2016
Help please auto top up Beginners 30 Jul 2016