Phosphates...

Discussion in 'Water Parameters and Additives' started by leslie hempel, 17 Oct 2011.

  1. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I had a call from a fellow reefer this morning and im puzzled..

    he is experiencing a reading of .004 of phosphate with his meter (hanna) and upon testing the efflient of his phos reactor is getting a reading of .007

    his NSW reading before use is .003..

    why is the water exiting his reactor higher in a phos reading..

    all that i can think of his perhaps the way he is adding his kalk? as i remember there was something to this to reduce phos.. or am i babling on here....

    comments welcome..
     
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  3. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    What media is he using? How old is it?
     
  4. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    new media hes going to give me tha name later on...
     
  5. roderigo

    roderigo

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    I used some rowa phos in my tank and I had a very high reading of phosphate about 0.5 + and I one day my phosphate are 0 and till today continued to be so I had bad phosphates coz I used NSW but went back to the beach at a new spot and got better water with 0 phosphates just some info
     
  6. ziyaadb

    ziyaadb

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    Kalk helps precipitate phos out via skimming, thats all i know
     
  7. pXius

    pXius

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    Something in the pump/pipes? Something could get stuck if there's a ball-valve. Are the sponges in the reactor clean? Did he rinse the media?

    Its very strange indeed.
     
  8. leslie hempel

    leslie hempel Thread Starter Moderator MASA Contributor

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    @ziyaadb that what i was thinking along the lines of but i need more info on it..

    anyone?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    KALK (calcium hydroxide) reacts with phosphates to form insoluble calcium phosphate, which then gets removed by the skimmer. Hence dripping KALK before the inlet of your skimmer.
     
    Last edited: 17 Oct 2011
  10. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    learn something new every day :)

    so if we drop kalk before the skimmer it will add to phosphate removal
     
  11. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    correct. But it doesnt remove huge amounts of phosphate so shouldnt be seen as a replacement to other phosphate removing methods.
     
  12. FrancoisJou

    FrancoisJou

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    Just one observation:

    Experimental error exists. And especcially if you are looking at readings as small as 0.00x. That's three decimal places.

    If it was 0.04mg/l accuracy is much higher than 0.004mg/l, which in turn is higher than accuracy for 0.0004mg/l.

    So in this case you'd probably only get a really statistically significant reading by doing the readings a number of times and averaging.

    That said, I'm not sure how you do your measurements, but it could be that your instrument or test kit is not sensitive enough for the readings you are quoting.


    Also, as an afterthought, most phospate measurements include organic and inorganic phosphates. So even if you have dosed kalkwasser and it turns the phosphate into a insoluble non reactive form you'll still pick it up in your test. (until it is actually removed by the skimmer that is.)
     
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  13. Kunhardt

    Kunhardt

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    old media? Its saturated and the phosphates are leaching back into the system would be my guess. :)
     
  14. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Spot on Francois. I also use a Hanna Photometer, and have had slight differences in readings with the same sample. Was the cuvette spotless? Is it the old style photometer or one of the new palm size checkers?

    A small issue which I had was with getting all the powder from the reagent to dissolve without spilling, which IMHO does have an influence on final reading.
     
  15. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Oh and AFAIK the photometers only measure in incriments of .01, not .001. Was his reading 0.04 and then 0.07?

    Also depends on where in his tank he is measuring the 0.04 reading, what happens before the PO4 media, i.e. between where he measures and where it exits the PO4 reactor. Another thing to consider, is that a photometer works on colour. If it is new media and there is some microscopis granules suspended in the sample, they will change the colour of the sample to a darker blue, i.e. a false higher reading. Another thing to consider is that if something like Rowa is fluidised excessively, it will cause microscopic particles. Could even be dissolved, but not sure on that. Learnt this the hard way......
     
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  16. Seabass

    Seabass

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    Its rowa phos 1kg, brand new, mixed with seachem phos guard brand new. Reactor is new, reef octopus, pump is new.
     
    Last edited: 17 Oct 2011
  17. irie ivan

    irie ivan MASA Contributor

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    Very likely your problem, brand new, suspended particles, which even though sample is zeroed, could have influence on reading.
     
  18. Seabass

    Seabass

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    My comment/thought on this matter, no need for phos removal media, water changes are close to 40% every 2 weeks. If phos reading of water used when doing the change is 0,03ppm, why use a phos remover media at all? I don't profess that my line of thought is 100% accurate or valid, but logically when you replace 80% of your total water volume with what I presume is ideal phos reading of 0,03ppm, then you should be ok without media.

    What would cause phos to shoot up to toxic levels in a two week period, also considering 2 beastly skimmers are used and they are cleaned often, skimming is wet, kalk is also used. Just a bit of additional info on the system.

    I wish our "fellow reefer" would join in on this debate.
     
    Last edited: 17 Oct 2011
  19. pXius

    pXius

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    Sy gat jeuk...
    or
    Guess you could see it as a safety net?
     
  20. Nemos Janitor

    Nemos Janitor

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    What are the nitrate levels?
     
  21. Seabass

    Seabass

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    It's the new Hanna palm sized checker, readings are 0.03ppm, 0.04ppm and 0.07ppm, not 0.003ppm ...etc.

    Hope I am talking about the same reefer that Les is referring 2. Am I Les?

    Nitrates, don't know actual reading but from what he has mentioned, they are tested using salifert test kit and are very low, no issue with nitrates at all.
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2011
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