OverFlow mod

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by Alias, 16 Mar 2011.

  1. Alias

    Alias

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    Hey,

    LFS recommended a pipe overflow in the corner of my tank but as its a small tank i think it will cheapen the display.

    @RiaanP suggested mod 2 in this image:

    [​IMG]

    with this mod:

    Quoted: "A change what I would make is to have it wider (200mm), and the outlet offset towards a corner. Another hole, almost at the top, offset to the other side. Have double plumbing down. Bottom outlet controlled with ballvalve. Top outlet is an emergency outlet, just straight down. If anything do block the ballvalve, at least you will not flood your display. Having double outlets, means that number 2 is the best option."

    This i like but have a few alterations that i wanna run passed the experienced guys.

    If i take the exact same idea as number two but on the outside of the tank and cut a grove in the top of the tank to get the overflow into the slimline on the back and then make the external "box" out of perspex and drill the double holes would this give the same effectiveness?

    then it wont be in the tank at all and will be hidden on the back if i paint it black.

    How much noise does a overflow like this produce? and how hard is it to clean?

    Your input would be great.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    to clean inside, very difficult. but not needed. No detritus settlement at the bottom.

    Noisy, as can be, like a toilet flushing all the time. Unless you restrict with ballvalve. But I do not like to restrict the outlet, as it could lead to implications if something blocks up. So I would like another outlet higher. Set the ballvalve so that water level inside the overflow chamber is just under top (emergency)outlet.

    also will rather use a gatevalve instead of ballvalve.Easier to fine tune, but a lot more expensive.

    Do not cut the top of the back pane, to lower a section. Will cause weak points.

    Make overflow lip at least 150mm wide. 200mm better.

    Ok, other comments?
     
  4. FransSny

    FransSny

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    Alias, I have always used mod 2 & 4 when building tanks (looking from left to right), and I agree on the statements made by Riaan.

    I have since switched to mod 3 design and the noise reduction is significant IMHO, I do however also incorporate 2 outlets where possible . In case one gets plugged you will still have another.

    My 2C
     
  5. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    noise is a big concern for me, by adding a ball/gate valve does that allow you to keep the water level closer to the top of the lip there fore reducing the flushing sound? in y head this would almost reduce the trickle noise to nothing? any other ways of reducing the noise?

    where can i find a gate valve btw?
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2011
  6. Falcon

    Falcon

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    use the smallest one,that is number 3 from the left.

    I use this and its dead silent,however at the back outside the tank i dont have an elbow,instead i have a tee mounted vertically so that one end is in the tank and the other is flowing down and the other allows air to come from the top...very silent and uses very little space.
     
  7. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    @Falcon, mind putting a pic of that up?

    also, what happend if a pump fails? how do you prevent overflows etc?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  8. Falcon

    Falcon

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    just replace the elbow from mod3(counting left to right) to a tee as seen in the sketch below.not going to be by my tank till tommorow night so can post actual pic.

    [​IMG]

    if pump fails then the sump needs to have enough room to handle excess overflow water this is around 5 liters in smaller tank max.if you use a 32 or 50mm pipe then there is very little risk of it clogging up by a snail etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  9. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    hmmm, that looks good. and you don't need a ball/gate valve because the smaller overflow chamber regulates the flow? and flooding won't happen in the event of a power cut because it will just flow into the sump. nice.
     
  10. Falcon

    Falcon

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    nah ball valve is mainly for noise and like i say i have experienced very little so no need for it really in my tank.the chamber is not restricting the flow in any way..it pretty open.maybe around 2-2.5cm space between glass and chamber.some fish even went down here so i suggest you put some eggcrate or something on the top to prevent this.
     
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    On the pic of Falcon, you can put an end cap on the top open end of the T-piece. with small hole and a airline tube inserted. With air valve. Then you got another version of a Durso. It works. My big tank works like that, with 2 outlets. The box is just stretched to 1m wide. Not sure if silent enough to be in my room, tank is in a Lapa.

    pic with tank lying on its back.
    [​IMG]


    another durung setup, from the back, see the endcaps.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2011
  12. Jeann1

    Jeann1

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    Same question as I have.. whats better to use?

    Anyways, RiaanP , What are all the pipes? i count 6??
     
  13. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    complicated?
    Not actually.

    Top two outlets.
    Left top, inlet / return from sump. Redone that with another overflow type box, with "roof" to let water back in. Works good.

    Bottom center, Closed loop out. Inside tank, T piece and 50mm grey PVC with 6mm holes for suction.

    Bottom corners, Closed loop returns. Plus another 4 holes in the Euro bracing where more closed loop returns come back.

    for history of this tank, Pity not running anymore due to life.
    PlayStation 3 - Marine Aquariums of South Africa
     
  14. Falcon

    Falcon

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    Dont confuse yourself buddy he is just running a closed loop for flow(COMPLETELY SEPERATE SYSTEM TO THE OVERFLOW;)), but for the overflow he is using the two top pipes...I have found one to be sufficient unless you going to have flow of over 4000-5000lt per hour on your return pump which is not needed.

    I suggest you try with out the cap on top,
    and if you find it noisy still then go for riaans durso suggestion or go to your hardware and buy a 50mm two way vent valve and slap it on there to deaden the sound down a bit.

    one of these ways will work out quiet for you.
     
  15. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yip, I was running 2 * 3000L/h return pumps. With height head loss, about 5000L/h in total. So yes did use both outlets. Sump is too wide for one return pump, ended up with too slow flow. After adding another pump that was just lying around, the sump flow improved. Also the 1 overflow went to skimmer compartment, the other fed the algae scrubber directly.

    All the other connections, was for closed loop. I doubt if I will ever go closed loop again. Due to power consumption.
     
  16. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    @RiaanP, gonna give this mod a bash, what dimensions should i use though. Going for the shallow overflow like the one in your pic.

    Length = 200mm
    hight = ??
    distance of lip to top of tank = ??
    gap between overflow and tank = ??

    then i should use same thickness glass as the tank which is fine, 50mm piping all round?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  17. Falcon

    Falcon

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    50mm is recommended as its very unlikely to get clogged by anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Length = 200mm
    height = 100mm
    distance of lip to top of tank = 20 to 30mm
    gap between overflow and tank = 10 to 20mm (10 is ok)

    First thing first, get the tank connectors, that will define the gap thickness.

    Height, that is so the hole fits inside. Do this one after the hole is cut, and tank connector fitted. Then you can work out the height.

    water head height. That is the thickness of the water head as it runs over the overflow. Distance between glass rim and surface. will be about 5mm. So your true water level will be 5mm above the overflow rim. This head height does depend on the return pump strength.

    So if overflow is 20mm from top, then your safety margin will only be 15mm or even less. That is a bit thin. Rather go for 30mm, then the water level should be about 25mm from the top.

    Lastly, check first if you can get one of those overflow combs. To prevent snails from entering the chamber. Been there done that, and that snail caused a lot of noise. But the comb will make the head height a bit more, between 8 to 10mm higher than overflow. Take that into account. So again the 30mm could be ok.
     
  19. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    cool,
    between the time I started my answer, and posting it, @Falcon answered as well.
    Good part is that generally, we said the same thing.
    :thumbup:


    BTW, 50mm pipe under gravity can handle up to 6000L/h.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  20. Alias

    Alias Thread Starter

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    Awesome, will post pics when im done :) let the build begin
     
  21. Falcon

    Falcon

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    LOL ya i typed while you were checking for your boss not to catch you!:biggrin:

    But yes what you mainly added was the comb,that is quite important imo as too many fish go over mine especially small/slow swimming types. just be careful to not go too fine on the comb as it will the clog easily/then also too big wont stop smaller fish going over.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
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