Overflow Design

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by LCornelius, 27 Jul 2010.

  1. LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Hi all,

    I have been searching the forum and net the past few days for overflow ideas.

    I did manage to find some, but need to ask some questions.

    Background:
    The tank will be 2000l x 1000w x 700h (about 1200 liters)
    The tank can still change a bit, but the water level should be 600h.
    The tank will be viewable from the front and back panel.

    1. Overflow chamber inside or outside the tank?

    I kind of think the outside would be fine, but need answers on questions 2

    2. Overflow chamber size, width, length and height?

    I can't imagine the width can be the same as my tank, since 1m is pretty wide.

    3. Seems like the a durso standpipe is the way to go for return to the sump?

    Would one return be enough or should I use 2 returns? Also what diameter piping will best be suited for the job?

    4. What should the return rate be to the sump?

    This question probably sums up all my questions.
    As far as I understand one would like as much as possible, but one need to draw the line somewhere!

    Once I have the overflow sorted I can design the tank in sketchup :thumbup:

    Thanks for the help!
     
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  3. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    This is mine,
    But tank is lying on its back, so turn your head.;)
    Glass on the left is the euro bracing.

    10944b4611ca98546.jpg

    Advantage, no waterfall sound, Dorso outside (T piece going up is capped).
    Negatives, pipes at the back take up space. Can look at Idol Marine narrow type overflows that actually exists at below the tank. But waterfall noice is a problem with them.
     
  4. Pete

    Pete

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    Riaan there is no noise problem with the slim line overflow as all you do is add a ball valve to lift the water level in the overflow and then you have no noise. I would go with the slim line over flow minimal space lost in tank:thumbup:
     
  5. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yes Pete, I know.

    I just do not like the idea to restrict the downpipe while return pump is pumping upwards. It is almost like balancing two pumps, in this case two waterflows. Anything, in my opinion, that do go down the overflow down to the ballvalve, and for some stupid reason block it. Will result in either a dry running overheating return pump, or flooded display tank. That is my opinion, I might be wrong. I know there are a lot of new tanks built with ballvalves in the downpipe. And I know my luck. So it is not for me.

    But then again, I do like the slim design, and the fact that it takes almost no space inside the tank.

    Pete, do you still have your bullhorns. They also do not take up a lot of space.
     
  6. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    Your sump pump should be running between 4-5000lph.
    Two 32mm down pipes will easily handle this. That said, I'd run 50mm just for that extra safety margin.
    Fit a valve on one of the down pipes so you can throttle it back to run as a full syphon and reduce noise.

    Overflow length should be anything between 500-700mm.
    I'd run it on one of the sides - just cut that panel lower , then use glass spacers to seal the balance of that side.

    Go check my overflow design on my build thread in the "supersize tank category".
     
  7. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    Tune the ball valveon the first pipe so you just have a trickle down the second pipe. If the first pipe blocks the second handles the flow. You need to feed the latter with air to stop it gurgling. As the level rises, it should close the air bleed line, allowing it to go to full siphon, thereby pulling the level down.
     
  8. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Good idea, so basically one downpipe should be slightly higher than the other for this option to work. Lower pipe takes 99% of the flow normally, and in case something goes wrong, the higher backup pipe helps out. This is a good idea on normal box type of overflows.

    But this setup will be extremely difficult to do on the "Idol Marine" setup, where the downpipe is actually connected to the bottom of the tank. Actually it is connected to a piece of 10mm glass that is glued to the bottom of the tank. I got a 1.2m setup with this type of overflow. And as this is my QT tank, in the garage, I do not mind any noise.
     
  9. OP
    LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Thanks for the info so far guys!
    Super stuff from all the contributors. :thumbup:

    Riaan, so if I understand your overflow box is on the inside of your tank at the back?
    So basically your box is the size of your back panel?

    So I could make my box 600mm wide (leaving 20mm on each side) on the one side of my tank. I'm going to put the box at the top of the tank, makes more sense for surface skimming.

    AfricaOffroad, how on earth did I miss your tank ;)
    That overflow is exactly what I would like to do! Are the 3 downpipes 32mm?
    Would you be so kind and send me the diameters of the box?

    Getting so excited, can hardly control myself!
    I just decided not to work on Friday and visit Frans at Dorry Pets :whistling:

    Cheers,
    Lean
     
  10. AfricaOffroad

    AfricaOffroad

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    3 pipes are 32 mm.
    I'll take some dimensions tonight and post for you
     
  11. OP
    LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Thanks AfricaOffroad, appreciate it!
     
  12. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Yes inside, about 1m wide, tank is 1.5.
    About 120mm high, and 10mm wide, using 10mm glass. So it stands in total 20mm from the back.
     
  13. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    I copied RiaanP's overflow design. Except I used 6mm glass with a gap of 6mm. So my overflow only protrudes 12mm into my tank. I also didn't go the whole way across my tank, the tank is 900mm and the overflow is 800mm across and 100mm high. Takes up absolutely no space inside my tank. Here's a picture of it, you can see the overflow on the back panel:

    17284c4ecd15552b1.jpg
     
  14. Pete

    Pete

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    Yip still have the bull horns
     
  15. Singularity

    Singularity Hmmm amper!

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    Slim overflows are dead quiet once you have the ball valve adjusted correctly, if it wasn`t for the humming of my skimmer the tank would not make a sound.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jul 2010
  16. OP
    LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Thanks guys, all questions answered. Have a beer on my tab :peroni:
    The only question I still need clarity on: 4. What should the return rate be to the sump?

    This is probably a stupid question, because it depends on how much water will be returned to the tank from the sump. So by using some valves on the 3 downpipes I can control the water volume from tank to sump.

    I'm think of using a Hailea HX-6550 pump to return water from the sump to the tank.
    That should give me return flow of 5580L per hour (give or take). Would that be enough or should I add two of these to give at least 10000L per hour? I kind of like the 2 pump idea, that should cycle my tanks volume 10 times per hour :thumbup: or am I missing a big building block here?

    I have decided 100% on sump layout, but the sump will be 2m long. Giving me plenty of space for a monster DSB!
     
  17. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    How big is your tank. 10000Lph is way to much unless you tank is like 4000L.
     
  18. OP
    LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Tank will be between 1200L and 1800L, so 10000Lph is probably to much ;)
    Still learning, just that I've read on the interweb you need to cycle up to 10 times your water volume per hour. Thanks for the info :thumbup:

    Hi Frans,

    Ek wil graag Vrydag vir jou by die winkel kom kuier.
    Waar is die winkel? Kaapstad of Brackenfell?

    Op die web kry ek twee adresse vir jou winkel!

    Kon nie vir jou 'n private message stuur nie, jou inbox is vol :p

    Groete,
    Lean
     
  19. Manic

    Manic Moderator

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    My tank is 550L and I'm currently only using a 1500Lph return pump
     
  20. OP
    LCornelius

    LCornelius Moderator

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    Cool, so the Hailea HX-6550 @ 5580L per hour will be perfect for a 1000L - 1500L tank!
     
  21. vatso

    vatso

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    HX-6550 will be 2 much flow - HX-6540 is on my 900L system
     

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