Nitrate control in a PO4 limited environment

Discussion in 'General Discussions and Advice' started by dono, 25 Sep 2014.

  1. dono

    dono

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    Hi,

    Some background info : tank is a 1000L system.

    Parameters are
    Alk - 150ppm
    Cal - 450
    Mag - 1400
    Sg- 1.025

    PO4 - 0 (Salifert test kit)
    NO3 - 5

    Additional info: I am running 1 liter of cubes (nitraguard), Been Dosing Vodka/Vinegar - up to 30ml a day a the moment. Also running a little GFO. coral growth and coloration is cool (can be better - hence this post). Absolutely no algae. Been Dosing Vodka/Vinegar - up to 30ml a day a the moment. No bio-bloom or string bacteria etc.

    I have read about the redfields ration - where No3 will go to 0 - but some Po4 will still be present. I am at the opposite side of this coin. and will like to take my no3 down even further. Any suggestions?
     
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  3. Tantor

    Tantor

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    I am looking for the same answer... thanks for raising I will follow this thread
     
  4. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    I would say your ratios are messed from running both Cubes and Carbon Dosing at the same time.
    You don't need both filtration systems and I think they have reached a point where they are actually being counter productive to one another
     
  5. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    Run either cubes or dose vodka but don't run both at same time as this will mess up your Redfield Ratio
     
  6. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Coral colouration does not only depend on low nutrients. But also stuff like potassium, iron and iodine. Do you test or supplement any of these?
     
  7. dono

    dono Thread Starter

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    I would think that all are carbon sources. It's just that the cubes are higher up the chain.. Hence it needs to be broken down into sugars then usable acetate. With me dosing V/V it shouldn't matter as all I am doing is supplementing a more direct carbon source. I would agree in possibly taking the gfo offline for a while (which I have done now) and see where that goes.
    @butcherman - nooit bru, don't test those. I do dose seachem fuel every two weeks. And do a 150l water change a month to replenish any lost trace elements.

    Here is a big hoo-haa, I just took my water down to a local Lfs, they tested it, no detectable nitrates or phosphate ( they where testing with a Red Sea test kit) . Retest at my home. 0 phos but 5 nitrate.

    Anyone in Durban with a digital meter that could put my mind at ease...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  8. CameL

    CameL

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    Orca bio-cubes titanium, plenty to read about them here on the forums.
     
  9. dono

    dono Thread Starter

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    @CameL - I'm doubting that would work. You always hear of higher levels of Po4 with NO no3.

    in my case I got undetectable Po4 but some nitrates - so its the other way around.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  10. CameL

    CameL

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    Orca nitra guard biocubes titanium remove nitrates irrespective of phosphates.
    The normal biocubes reduce nitrates and phosphates with regard to the redfield ratio
     
  11. 4age

    4age

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    OOR..if you brave enough you can manipulate redfields ratio by dosing small amount of phosphate for bacteria to use to consume nitrates. @williet has done this if im correct..check his thread out..i wont do it without test kits or if not experienced enough as its not for everyone
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  12. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Just a quick question. Do you want paslet colours on your sps or darker colours?
     
  13. Reefhead

    Reefhead

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    Nope.
    What happens is you have Redfield ratio which is the ratio that nitrates and phosphates get used up by our filtration sources.
    1 filtration source = 1 ratio of uptake of Nitrates and Phosphates
    2 filtration sources = 2 different ratios of Nitrates and Phosphates, which means that if one works faster then the other you have 1 source taking out a certain amount of N & P and another source also taking out N & P but at different rates so eventually you get to a point where your rate of N & P usage is no longer equal and therefore you will run out of either N or P to be used up and in turn messing up your Redfield Ratio
    Unless you can get 2 filtration sources to use up N & P at exactly the same speed in exactly the same ratios they will not work together
     
  14. 459b

    459b Moderator MASA Contributor

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    I dont think nitrates of 5 are anything to worry about.
     
  15. dono

    dono Thread Starter

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    @butcherman - truly Im looking for the most " balanced" system that can continue with minimum effort. Whilst keeping most of my parameters in check.

    Im using a doser at the moment to make sure things are stable... (which for the most part they are)

    I think i will mess around with coral color a bit more once a steady baseline- maybe 6 month or more can be established.
    @Reefhead - noted! - will look more closely into bypassing the ratios ... going to be seeing @williet soon anyways... so Im sure he'll give me some proper advice on getting things much lower. sorta like a show-n-tell.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  16. butcherman

    butcherman Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Aiming for ulns is not going to make your system easier to maintain
     
  17. dono

    dono Thread Starter

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    I wouldn't say aiming... I'm just trying to get to a state of automation where most important parameters are in check. So with my nitrates kinda stalled, was just wanting to know why as I didn't know that there was a reverse redfields.. I learnt that today. Was trying to stay away from more cubes in the hope of doing away with the cubes all together... Also having hoped to just dose phosphates in... We'll see.

    Thanks to all who chimed in.
     
  18. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    Use algae
     
  19. dono

    dono Thread Starter

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    @dallasg - I ran a huge ats on my tank in 2012. But the amount of algae I was harvesting was insane. At that time I didn't mind a bit of algae in the dt as well. Water clarity also took a dip when I had to go out of town for business. Bit of yellowing, nothing that a small water change together with carbon couldn't fix. But now, I think I want to do it the chemistry way. So everything is just dosed into the tank using a solid baseline.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  20. dallasg

    dallasg Moderator MASA Contributor

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    there is no simple "chemistry way" to remove nitrates without the PO4 limitation, there are resins one can employ but nothing that is found on the market readily or i would advise if it wasnt my tank.

    products like neo-nitrate and neo-phos were developed to aid this issue of ULNS nutrients,
     
  21. Bev

    Bev

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    What are you testing you Nitrates with? The Red Sea kit is very good so if it says zero, then you are already where you want to be. Maybe check it on another kit to be sure.
     
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