newbie with anemones

Discussion in 'New Members' started by kittyfish, 23 Apr 2011.

  1. kittyfish

    kittyfish

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    my bio is simple... i love all animals and own a variety. its definately something id love to do for a living... working with them i mean...

    im very new to marine life. My tank was given to me by a friend who no longer wanted it.

    my tank is a 250 l with at least 10 pieces of med/large LR, a blue yellow tailed damsel, 2 green cromise, a domio damsel, a few hermit crabs and (the creatures im trying to learn about quickly) 2 carpet anemones and a magnificent

    i have a hang on via aqua protein skimmer, a crushed coral substrate bottom and a small pump moving water around.
    lights are 3 30w extra day high glow (akwa) and 1 30w marine blue at the back. is this enough?
    the tank is 50cm deep.
    the temp is 25 degees, nitrate is a little high, nitrite and ammonia are 0, the ph is very high (8.8) and i cant seem to get it down even with water changes.

    the fish are all fine... healthy and eating well, even the carpets are doing well but the magnificent keeps blooming then dropping into near nothingness then blooming again.
    i dont know what is wrong.

    calcium is 450 and i filter feed them with sera marine coraliquid and occasionally some small pieces of prawn/shrimp/hake if hes up.

    any advise would be great. im really just starting and i need to know more about them to keep them happy.

    oh, the tank is also just a year old.

    thanks again
     
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  3. Seabass

    Seabass

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    I am just going to welcome you, you appear to be on the ball.

    Suggest just reading as much as possible on the forum, can also just google or search the forums.

    Cheers
     
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  4. Evo R

    Evo R

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    :welcometomasa2:

    Great to have you on board the best forum in the world!!
    First off....Pics! We need pics to beter help you.
    Secondly your lighting is way too weak for nennies!! T5's atleast.
    Thirdly, Did you know that corals play chemical warfare on a daily basis.There for your filtration needs to be very efficent to handel all the extra toxins!(You could have a total tank loss if a nennie dies.They are that toxic in water.)
    Fourtly Flow,Nennies nned strong flow in the tank.What type of flow pumps do you have?

    O and whats the dimensions of your tank?Water volume?How regularly do you do water changes?

    And look in the begginer section,there is a sticky for begginers like yourself.Read through it and you will imedatly understand marines beter.

    And dont be afraid to ask Q's!!
    We all are learning on a daily basis.
     
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  5. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Hi Kittyfish, and WELCOME to MASA and to this great hobby.

    Good advice there from Seabass - reading and researching as much as possible :thumbup:

    If you emptied it to move, then I'm afraid your tank is not a year old anymore - it should be considered as being a new setup...

    Unfortunately, you are starting off wrong, but it's great that you have joined MASA, because now we can help you to correct the mistakes :)

    At this stage, I am only going to discuss one problem/error, so as not to overwhelm you :)

    Anemones: These creatures live for hundreds of years (yes, 100's...) in the wild, but less than 3% of anemones in captivity live for longer than 5 years in our tanks. According to an (admittedly rather old) survey conducted by Joyce Wilkerson (a well respected anemone expert and author), 45% of anemones kept by hobbyists with less than 2 years of marine aquarium experience were dead after an average of 3 months!

    As an animal lover, I'm sure that you do not want your anemones to die or suffer, so I'm giving you this information NOT to criticize or attack you, but merely to help you to make an informed decision :)

    You have three major problems with the anemones (as you will discover if you do some research)

    • your lighting is not nearly sufficient for their needs.
    • your tank is too young (if you emptied it to move it...)
    • you have more than one type of anemone in a relatively small volume of water - they will attack and most likely kill one another through the release of toxins.
    I would strongly urge you to consider to have the anemones looked after by an experienced reefer in your area (there are lots of them in Johannesburg), or to sell them to a petshop or other reefer who can look after them while you concentrate on fixing your setup. At least, get rid of the Magnifica...

    Regarding your pH - I suspect that your test kit is faulty or old, or that you are using a fresh-water test kit. Can you identify the make of kit, and check if there is a "best by" date on it?

    Please post some photos, if possible, or at least describe your setup (especially filtration) in more detail - then we can help you with that as well.

    Hennie

    PS. Good advice there from Evo R as well - he beat me to it, as I'm a slow typer...
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2011
  6. crispin

    crispin

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    welcome to masa kittyfish, great to have you join, you\ll find that this site will give you all sorts of insights into the amazing creatures we can keep succesfully in marine aquariums.

    hennie (reefmaniac) has given you good advice above and i wont add to the questions just at the moment so that u dont get swamped in the beginning, but to confirm that it would be best for those nennies in expert care for the moment. Perhaps the previous owner of the tank managed to keep them a while, but im afraid i am on the opinion that they are housed in unsuited aqaurium for their long term survival.

    its great to read you have a handle on the basics of marines and that you want to get into the most facinating pet care youve ever entered into. Look forward to seeing your tank and its progress :)
     
  7. Tobes

    Tobes Retired Moderator

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    Welcome to MASA Kittyfish, glad you joined us. Seeing that you're new to marines I suggest you also read the link in my signature on starting a marine tank as there is loads of info for beginners (written by Reefmaniac - our reefing guru :)). I know you didn't actually start this tank, but the info is great non-the-less ;)
     
  8. seank

    seank

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    Welcome to the Forum Kittyfish. Good advise given from the guys.
     
  9. kittyfish

    kittyfish Thread Starter

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    thanks for all the advise and warm welcomes :)

    i will keep an eye on the magnificent and see if one of my friends can house him if he's not coping, otherwise its just cruel, and id feel terrible if he died.

    question: does it count that when the tank was moved all the substrate/lr/water came too?
    i dont think the temp dropped too much to do any damage to the bugs? is the tank really back to square one?

    oh also i found a shop that was open yesterday and bought two sunsun vibration pumps to help move water around more and everyone seems more perky today.

    pics to come :)
     
  10. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    That depends... it's not only the temperature that would have affected the "bugs". If the LR was exposed to air, this could have had serious consequences, depending on what life there was on and in the rock. The filtration bacteria would probably not have been affected much if the rock was kept damp, but any sponge living on (and especially inside) the rock would have been compromised (if air is trapped inside a living sponge, it will most likely kill it). So, depending on the life forms, some could have died, and this could cause the tank to cycle again. If you had any sand in the tank, it is also quite likely that a lot of sand-living organisms could have been killed during the move.

    The filtration bacteria live mostly on substrate (rock, sand, even the glass panes of the tank), and there are not all that many in the water, so in terms of filtration there would not have been any benefit to have used the old water again (but your fish and anemones probably appreciate it that you used the old water, to which they have become accustomed to...).

    Many people (myself included) have moved tanks successfully - it's just that one must appreciate that there could have been negative consequences, and one should thus act accordingly (by e.g. doing partial water changes every day or two to keep ammonia/um and nitrite down, should there have been die-off, and by not feeding anything for the first 2-3 days after the move, and thereafter only very little for the next week or two).

    Good :biggrin:

    Hennie
     
  11. AndrévN

    AndrévN

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    hi kitty welcome to masa. See hennie and the other guys has given you some great advise already. :thumbup:

    The magnifica is a problem but tell me this, does the nemmie open in the morning and close off in the evenings when lights go out. Tell me more. As they do have to expell all the old water to replenish with clean water regularly. Pls tell me in detail how he opens and closes. And then how long has your friend had the system for, how long have you had it for. How many yrs months did your friend have the nemmies in that system for. Give us a pic or two of the system so we can see. Do you have a sump and if so what is in it. How deep is you display substrate, how fine has the coral been crushed. The finer the better as that would prevent detritus to settle and go below the surface of the substrate.

    Now regarding the lighting, dont know those fluorescent tubes you using but i suggest you look at upgrading to t5 very high output ones. As mentioned, nemmies require well lit tanks. Regarding flow for them they differ regarding the requirements of flow. One would love flow and would move into the flow other would move away and like the motion and so on. But as a general rule you need awesome currents (flow) in your tank not only for movement but also to transport food past all the filter feeders and to prevent dead spots in the display, if dead spots do occur you will end up with problems. It will also keep the dirt suspended so it can be transported into the sump area for filtration and or removal by the skimmer.

    Please read as much as you can. Oom hennie has some wonderfull links under the forums link. Years and years experience under the belt, sean koekemoer too he just keeps a low profile but if you ask him he'll help. Crispin our buddy from far away also has hidden info as he likes reading up on things and a lot of the rest of the guys too, WE also always battle killkanga we give each other the thumbs up from pappy:finger:as to who is right and who is wrong but at the end we all :1:as opinions differ so read all you can and see what would work for your system as they all differ regarding lighting, water movement and quality, filtering, inhabitants etc. Dont just jump in and change everything to what you read - have a look and take in everything and see what would work best for you. Remember keep it simple so it can be fun.

    All the best and you are at the right place you'll see.

    masahello
     
  12. kittyfish

    kittyfish Thread Starter

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    hi again.
    sorry taken so long to reply, easters been hectic.
    k, so to answer questions...
    @Max:
    *the magni doesnt seem to have a regular pattern of opening and closing, sometimes he'll go down at 3pm and sometimes he's up before a switch lights on.
    i switch on 2 of the 4 lights at 8am and 2 on at 9am.
    opposite way at night...
    *opening and closing, when he deflates its a rapid shrink over about an hour period roughly. the colour becomes very dark purple and the tenticles are loose and flacid. basically he looks like a dark purple blob covering his rock.His foot is still anchored.
    when he blooms again he slowly becomes plump in parts until he's big and lighter in colour again..
    *my friend had the tank for a year +- , and ive had it just over a month. not sure how long he had the nennies.
    he gave me the tank cuz i just started my own 3 months back.
    *substrate is 2cm think crushed coral large size, like between 5-10mm
    *no sump but id like to add one

    reef maniac:
    *thanks, nothing was exposed to air. everything was bagged underwater and turned once in the filled tank to release air bubbles.
    *filtration relies heavily on LR. also a via aqua hanng on protein skimmer and hang on dolphin filter filled with bio balls (sorry forgot to add this one to original post)
    * test kits are red sea marine lab 5 in one master test kit and jungle quick dip.
    Evo R:
    *tank dimentions are 1200*450*450mm vol 250l
    * ive done 2 water changes a week because i thought the mag was dying (once even quarter change for three consecutive days) but felt that may do more harm then good and have left them to see whats what.

    im going to try post some pics now but i only have a phone/net connection so lets see.

    thanx again
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Nov 2015
  13. kittyfish

    kittyfish Thread Starter

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    [​IMG]

    magnificent when big

    [​IMG]

    magnificent when deflated



    [​IMG]
     
  14. kittyfish

    kittyfish Thread Starter

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Tremayn

    Tremayn

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    Welcome :) .. Lol what does your shirt say? Saw the reflection... :whistling:
     
  16. gMAN

    gMAN with the plan

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    Hello Kitty, welcome to MASA, your nennies are screaming for help.........:(
    Maybe try housing them at a reefer with a more established setup? Also your substrate is not gonna work, too course, kak trap, depending on your budget, aragonite (pricey) or playsand (cheapy) will be a lot better for your setup.
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2011
  17. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Hello And Welcome Kittyfish
    Ok, first, you have green hairy algae on the rocks in the middle. I think the rocks where stacked higher with the rocks with loads of algae at the tip. Anyway, algae is already a sign of incorrect water parameters. You mentioned high nitrates, but what about your phosphates reading. Anyway, looking at the tank I would reckon it is high.
    Secondly, the flow in your tank with just one pump in completely wrong. See you added 2 SunSun pumps, good thing.
    With that low water movement, I'm sure almost none of the stuff that should have ended in the skimmer actually ever did. And it all settled into that crushed coral. When you disturb the substrate, does it release a lot of green soup? Anyway, that is detritus, adding to your nitrate and phosphate problems. The detritus fall into between the relative large gaps in the crushed coral, resulting in a detritus trap. And the hermits cannot reach it and help to clean it out. I strongly suggest that your replace the substrate with either playsand or aragonite. With playsand, just wash it properly. Search around on this forum, and you would see a lot of tanks use it (I do).
    Your lights, never going to make it. Can keep it for one day when you got a sump with macro algae.
    About sump, please look into it, having your tank drilled with overflow. A lot of benefits in having a sump, like added filtration, more water volume, and hiding heaters.
    Then you should have space for a proper skimmer. What is the rating of the hang on skimmer you got.
    Back to lights, on 50cm deep, T5 light unit, 54W and 6 tubes could do it. But the anemones you have prefer better lights, looking at Metal Halides. Anyway can not move over to MH, as the light intensity increase will "sun burn" them. Only a few hours and slowly increase light period per day.

    Your Anemones, especially the one is bleached. Very white. Sure sign of big problems and highly likely that it is going to die. please get somebody to look after it, getting it back to health while you first sort out your tank.

    You been dumped into the deep end of the pool by receiving a gift tank that is completely set up incorrect, in my opinion. Also, part of the reason why tanks should be at least 8 months old before you add anemones, is so that you have time to learn how to maintain correct water parameters.

    250L is a nice size tank. And you could be able to get it into the right direction, but first, let somebody take care of those anemones.
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2011
  18. Anemone

    Anemone

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    Good advice given here. The anemones are not going to do well with the age of the tank, substrate, and lighting. Try finding new homes for the anemones while you make some changes and let the tank mature.
     
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