New Tank Plan - 1.1m

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by ANiMOSiTY, 28 Jan 2013.

  1. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY

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    Hey guys,

    What do you think?
    Space is an issue in my place, so this is pretty-much the best I can do for the moment.
    Height and width have some room for adjustments, but not really length.

    I currently have a 100L 50x50x50 cube and would like something a bit bigger.
    Sump setup will be the MASA recommended 3 chamber setup with a DSB / Refugium.

    Are my DSB capacities ok?

    Any recommendations in terms of flow?
    I'm aiming to start with 5000 l/hour with the idea of increasing it if needed.
    I currently have Zoanthids and Xenia and I find that having slightly less filtration flow means they can absorb more nutrients from the water.

    I'd like to do a BeanAnimal C2C overflow - any recommendations for overflow sizing?
    I'll probably use 1" bulkheads.

    With my space issues, I'd like to still be able to keep salt, food, refractometer etc in the cupboard.
    I've got the idea of using removable shelves inside the cupboard.
    That maximizes storage space, but still allows for lots of room for sump maintenance.
    The first chamber will be the skimmer chamber, so no shelving above that.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Length 1150 mm
    Width 600 mm
    Height 650 mm

    Capacity
    449 L
    118.6 US Gal

    Surface Area
    6 900 cm²
    0.69 m²

    Deep Sand Bed / Refugium
    DSB height: 170 mm
    DSB dimensions: 450 mm x 440 mm

    DSB Surface Area:
    1980 cm²
    0.198 m²

    Total sump capacity with pumps running, is about 95 litres, with an additional 45 litres for overflow water in the event of a pump failing or for feeding etc.

    Thoughts? Suggestions?

    Thanks guys and girls!
     
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  3. ScottK

    ScottK

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    Personally I would drop the second shelf or at least leave a lot more room above the far left compartments of the sump. Maybe extend one shelf all the way along but be careful to leave enough room to easily get a skimmer in and out and work in the sump.

    I know you said it's removable but once you have stuff sitting on the shelf it will be a PITA to take everything off to remove the shelf and work in the sump comfortably.
     
  4. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Do not restrict your access to the return pump. Drop as suggested the bottom shelf
    Why the space wastage both sides of the sump?

    With a 5mm head in your display you would could have 35L draining in case of power outage. Must ensure a proper siphon break.
     
  5. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    Thanks gents!

    Would there be a 5mm head with a C2C setup?
    I'm aiming for around 5000l/h of flow.

    I'm guessing that the DSB and sump sizing is OK then?

    The shelving is the part I need to work on.
    I've left that gap in the left half of the cabinet for the skimmer.
    Perhaps I should build the system and just add one shelf later on as needed.

    As for the unused space on the sides of the sump, I thought it might be a good idea for maintenance?
    Is that not really needed?
    The tank will be against a wall and the side panels are not really removable.

    Is it better to have removable side panels?
     
    Last edited: 29 Jan 2013
  6. Hammerhead

    Hammerhead

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    Are you referring to 5mm of head over the c2c or over the sump baffles as you going DSB so im assuming you dont want settlement in DSB area. I have a similar setup and the head over the rim of the c2c is about 4mm max and thats with a 4800 lt return, I do have a few elbows on the return so flow is cut back a little. Head over the baffle is about 6mm-8mm on a 450 wide sump.

    .

    I have 32mm on mine and have to throttle the flow a bit on the full siphon to mantain level in overflow else it sucks it up too fast. Just a note from my experience try and keep the holes a bit apart as it can be cubersome when you tightening the connectors. If u are going with 1 inch then keep the overflow box as slim as possible as its qiute a hindrace in the dispaly. In fact in future tanks i will opt to place it outside the tank.
     
  7. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    Yea maybe I should build an external overflow box rather.

    In the event of a power failure, is it ok to have water filling the sump over the DSB area?
    How would I get around that?
     
  8. RocketRooster

    RocketRooster

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    My 1m tank has 25mm down the entire back allocated to overflow and return - nothing is sticking into the display apart from the return nozzles. The overflow is about 80cm long. I have about 4500lph from two return pumps, and I have to throttle the overflow valve in order to keep it from gurgling.
     
    Last edited: 29 Jan 2013
  9. RocketRooster

    RocketRooster

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    Why are you concerned about this? (I'm no expert so this is a genuine question)
     
  10. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    I'm not :)
    I'm just asking in case it is a concern.
    But in 99% of the DSB sump designs I've seen, they are designed as I've done mine.

    I guess the only pain would be if some Chaeto moves around the sump while the pumps are off for feeding :biggrin:

    I think I'm going to rather change the design to incorporate an external overflow box.

    RocketRooster, have you got any pics of your overflow setup?
     
  11. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    Does not matter.
    Your sump, DSB plus return is about 800mm by 500mm. 35L draining would lift sump water level by 9mm. Excluding the first bit in return to fill that up. That will not be enough to allow cheato flowing over the dividers.
     
  12. RocketRooster

    RocketRooster

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    My dear sir, you are in luck! I do happen to have some pictars. :whistling:

    Not the best pictars - but it is widely grokked that a kak pictar is better than no pictar at all.


    This tank is an idol marine job, you might want to ask around for more info. Basically it's got a four-layer base, of which three are floating (the bottom layer supports the underside of the side panes). The middle two layers do not extend the depth of the tank. The top layer extends the depth of the tank MINUS the width of the overflow and the separator pane. This means there's a compartment at the back which is filled with water and takes pvc bulkheads.

    This compartment, as well as the overflow, are divided into three sections with thin strips of glass which define the width of the overflow. They form three channels - one return channel on each side, which are boxed in at the top, and the middle channel which forms the C2C overflow. The overflow is further braced with another strip, down the exact middle of the tank at the back.

    This makes for a very neat setup, but the return nozzles are a bit limited in what you can do with them. They can only turn round and round, the angle is fixed at 45'. I can also imagine that a fair bit of flow is lost due to the twists and turns that the water must take.

    The second pic shows the return/overflow bulkhead arrangement at the bottom of the tank. There is another red return valve in the opposite corner, which is off-screen.

    I need to sort that plumbing out - it could be made much more efficient and neat.

    SAM_0013.jpg

    SAM_0012.jpg
     
  13. RocketRooster

    RocketRooster

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    PS Go as wide and as high as you can. It makes ALL the difference! I'm already wishing I had more tank real estate. At 1m the length is perfect - I wish it was 1mx1m though!
     
  14. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    You guys rock :)

    How's this?
    1.2m long with an external overflow box and C2C setup.
    I also increased the sump size to use most of the floor space.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not 100% sure about the number of drain pipes needed, but the two outer pipes will be the return.
     
  15. Gesiggie

    Gesiggie Challenge accepted

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    Depending on strength of return pumps, with return pipes facing downwards, you run the risk of blowing up your substrate.
    If pipes are not well below the waterline, you can also create bubbles, resulting in salt spray. My 2c.
     
  16. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    Yea that part is a work in progress.
    Good points - thanks.
    The ONLY reason I thought of having them above the water line, was so that the return pipes don't create a syphon in the event of return pump failure.
    But I suppose I could drill a small hole into them somewhere.
     
  17. Gesiggie

    Gesiggie Challenge accepted

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    A syphon hole about 10mm above the water line should be sufficient to prevent syphoning. Just be sure to keep the hole clear ...
     
  18. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    here is an overflow / return I done now on a nano.

    [​IMG]

    The overflow chamber is a slimline, that goes out the back. The overflow front panel is all the way coast to coast. The return is on one end, and is separated with a glass piece that is 10mm higher than the overflow. And with a 20mm wide piece of glass over the top to force the water to the front.

    This design have no siphon breaks in place. Not needed at all. The outlet and return sections are at the exact height and can only drain that much. Outlet is 50mm, inlet is 30mm (could be 20 or 25mm). the net is there due to the tank housing clown gobies.

    I basically got the same concept on my 750L system.

    The head loss when the power goes out is very little. I do not have the worry of a siphon break that is blocked.

    Only design consideration is that the unions must be put in place before the front panel is installed.
     
  19. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    I know I'm new to this, but you guys are at a different level!

    Thanks for the ideas an feedback!
     
  20. ANiMOSiTY

    ANiMOSiTY Thread Starter

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    Next question is..
    Where do you guys get your tanks built?
    I'm in the Randburg / Fourways area.
     
  21. RiaanP

    RiaanP Moderator

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    how much are you willing to spend?

    Idol Marine does a very good high end job. But its not cheap.

    Dorry Pets do have standard starter tanks at a very reasonable price. They can also build your design, but it is more expensive. Even if yours are slightly smaller.

    I do my own tanks, but have the holes drilled for me.
     
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