New sump design for beginner

Discussion in 'Beginner Discussions' started by AndrévN, 26 Jul 2008.

  1. AndrévN

    AndrévN

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    Any ideas on the sump guys, you said your gonna give me some info Helep, helep!!!:whistling:
    The chamber just past the skimmer has small pieces of LR do i ditch that too :biggrin:

    How deep should the DSB be and what sand do i need then, ill have to remove some of that glass installed, its going to be messy, but all in good faith i reckon.


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  3. jacquesb

    jacquesb Retired Moderator

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    Hi Max - remove the sponges in chambers 1 and 2. Move your skimmer to chamber 1. Put the live rock rubble that you have in chamber 5 to chamber 3.
    Add either sugarfine aragonite, or playsand to chamber number 2 and 4... Only your return pump should in chamber 5/6.... and perhaps your phosphate remover....

    The aragonite or playsand should be rinsed extremely thoroughly before adding it. The depth of the sand should be +-20cm deep, seeing that you don't have a huge space for it....

    Then your sump should be much better in filtration, than it is now.
     
  4. aquamann

    aquamann

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    what water should be used to rinse the playsand before putting it in the sump?
    Fresh or salt water?
     
  5. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Fresh water it is cheaper ;)
     
  6. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator

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    When ever I wash something I normally use tap water and then rinse with RO.
     
  7. Pete

    Pete

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    Aquamann rinse with normal tap water till it is clean then you can give it a rince with some Ro
     
  8. Pete

    Pete

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    Ha shaun you beat me to it
     
  9. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Pete, thanks for the info, but suppose you have access to natural sea water, is anything wrong with that.
    I'm actually looking at using beach sand freshly collected from the sea, do i need to watch it with possible tap water?
     
  10. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Here is my other worry about sump.
    I have head people write about flooding during light out as water returns from the DT to the sump and probably overflow.
    Is there a way to possibly prevent water from returning back into the sump during power outtage? especially when you have multiple tanks powered by one sump and return pump
     
  11. Warr7207

    Warr7207

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    Make sure you have a siphon break on your return pipe. It will suck air and break the siphon and stop the water draining into your sump.
     
  12. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Warr, can you give me an idea on how to fix the siphon break to the return pipe, such that it will suck air to be able to stop the water from draining into the sump in the event of power failure?
    Thanks your contribution is highly appreciated.







     
  13. keyaam

    keyaam

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    Drill a hole in the return pipe just below the water level in your display tank. this will ensure that the siphon will stop once air is sucked in through the hole
     
  14. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    IMHO real sea sand is the best substrate BY FAR :thumbup:

    If freshly collected, I would just use it without any rinsing (assuming it was collected from below the low-tide water line, and from an unpolluted beach). If the sand was stored for more than 2-3 days, or has been allowed to dry out for any reason, I would wash it with sea water if this was available - else using normal tap water and rinsed with RO, as previously suggested.

    Hennie
     
  15. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Thanks Reef Maniac, I totally agree with your thought, i will go by it. i have access to fresh sea sand that i can collect from the low-tide water line and ready to use.

    thanks.
     
  16. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Thanks Keyaam for the explanation, now i got the siphone thing.
    but a quick question, am not good at hydrodynamics, but by way of common reasoning, i think the hole will be drilled at the top of the pipe so that normal draining of water from the display tank to the sump will not be interrupted, what is ur take on this?
    secondly, will the siphone break work when using gravity to push the water from the display tank to the sump?
     
  17. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Can anyone explain to me the difference between drilling a DT bottom and that the side ?
     
  18. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Warr, how about using a valve connected to the return pipe as a means of stopping the overflow of water back to the sump when there is power outtage, although the possible problem here will be having someone around always to turn off the return pipe flow. Does this make the siphone break a better option or they are two different things?
     
  19. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Just to clear up a possible misunderstanding - the flow from the display tank to the sump should be via a drilled system or via an overflow box - either system should be skimming the surface water in the display tank, and should be set up so that the hight of the water in the display tank is only so high above the intake of the downflow system that the volume of water can be accommodated in the sump. In other words, once the water level in the display tank has dropped by (say) 5mm, it should reach the lip (top) of the downflow intake (be this the top of the downpipe, overflow weir or overflow box). At this point, the water flow should stop automatically, and no siphon break is required.

    The "small hole drilled in the return pipe" is to stop a back-siphon from draining your tank through reverse flow down the pipe returning water from the sump to the display tank. In this case, the top of the return pipe should either be above the water level of the display tank (in which case no small siphon-break hole is required), or if it goes down (say) to a depth of 100mm below the surface of the display tank, THEN you should have the small hole drilled in the pipe, just below the water surface, to suck in air and thus break the siphon in the return pipe. In normal operation there will be a small "jet" of water being pumped through this hole, with the majority of the return water still being discharged through the actual opening of the pipe below the water level of the display tank.

    I would recommend to keep your system as "fool proof" as possible, and to thus have the return pipe discharge back into the display tank ABOVE the water surface of the tank. Even with a small "siphon break" hole in the pipe, in time that hole can become blocked with algae, or with a small snail which just happens to pass over the hole at the exact moment when there is a power failure (Murphy works that way...), thus causing the pipe to still drain your tank down to the level of the pipe opening - why make it easy for Mr. Murphey...

    Hennie
     
  20. aquamann

    aquamann

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    Reef manic, you truly deserve your log in name "REEF MANAIC" perfect explanation i must say, i did misunderstoon the entire concept, but thanks to your explanation i am well abreast with the flow concept now.
    But i having seen pictures of DT on this forum and else where, i'm tempted to do something different, am actually looking at having multiple tanks connected together by a pipe drilled through all the all tanks with one return flow from the sump and one draining pipe back to the sump, the draining will be powered by gravity and the return flow by a return pump.
    In my DT, i would like to have clean without substrate and to accomodate only fish.
    I intend having the return piple over the tank and spread across the surface of the tanks with holes at the botton side of the pipe to have a shower like flow into the DTs, bearing in mind that only one pipe will carry the water from the sump into the DT with a very powerful return pump strong enough to push the water through the hollow pipes from one end to the other across the entire tanks, we could be look at having 5 tanks connected together.
    DRILLING METHOD, my intended drilling method for draining is to drill the bottom of the tanks so that all remains of food particles and waste could go straight through the drain pipe to the protein skimmer in the sump for purification and then return back to the DTs.
    However, taking into consideration your analysis of how the drain drill should be done
    in the DT such that it should be a little below the water level of the DT to allow for an automatic cut off, here comes my question, how do i drill the draining such that it can take all waste at the bottom of the DTs to the sump since there will be no additional power heads in each of the tanks neither will there be any other means of getting the waste out? I want to rely solely on the sump to do the filtration.
     
  21. Reef Maniac

    Reef Maniac MASA Contributor

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    Firstly, you should have each tank drain (gravity fed) individually to the sump, or (preferably) from one tank into the next, and so on, if it's possible to have all the tanks at different levels, then use a single return pump to return the water, as you've described. Trying to balance several downflows going into one pipe will be quite difficult if they are not individually drained. Also, keep in mind that the sump will have to be large enough to handle the overflow water from ALL the tanks when there is a power failure.

    I would suggest that you have each tank built with a weir-type overflow, draining the most dirty surface water, and that you install separate closed-loop circulation systems on each tank to keep the waste particles in suspension until they flow over the weir to the sump. This will be more economical, and easier to control, than having to rely on one single large pump to do all the work - it will also be a lot safer, and will allow you to customize the flow in each tank to suit it's inhabitants.

    Hennie
     
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